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  1. Gidi is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/29/2010 2:04pm


     Style: Judo (noob) & BJJ (noob)

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Lampa View Post
    Not so sure about that on a few counts. One, they will have some trouble developing her in MMA since her Judo skill with no adaptation is enough to completely blow out most of the low level competition she'll be facing. That will probably force her to bite off more than she can chew as there are few intermediate challenges available. She hasn't even really turned pro yet.

    Also, Carano had a very specific look that our gal Friday here does not possess, even if they are both good looking women. What weight is she fighting at now? I know she did Judo above 145, and there isn't much in the way of big fights above 145 for women.
    She fought this one at 145 (according to the video)

    I have a feeling (based on nothing but my hope) that she'll be smart about this. I've read some of her blog, and she seems a fairly smart girl, not to mention her mom is really smart.

    Besides, she's doing it smart so far, she's training at a good reputable gym, she's taking it slow, and all in all seems to be having fun.

    *oh my, who knew I could nutride an athlete that has no nuts?
  2. Lindz is online now

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    Posted On:
    11/29/2010 3:18pm

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     Style: Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Good point! There is no adversity in training for or doing world class Judo, so who knows if she will fall apart getting smacked in the face.

    Ben
    A different type of adversity? I'm just speculating based on how sometimes guys who are great at straight bjj are unable to out grapple people with inferior jits because they aren't used to getting punched in the face
  3. Lampa is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/29/2010 3:34pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindz View Post
    A different type of adversity? I'm just speculating based on how sometimes guys who are great at straight bjj are unable to out grapple people with inferior jits because they aren't used to getting punched in the face
    This is going to be important. Handling getting hit has been a tripping point in MMA for top level grapplers before. And, I hope no one has forgotten that the current lady at the top of 145 has an iron chin, good hands, and an uncanny ability to force her opponents into a brawl.

    And my comment about her being forced to bite off more than she can chew doesn't have much to do with her own intellect. We've seen this issue with lots of fighters, the first one coming to mind being Bobby Lashley.

    A physical specimen with one superlative skillset and the rest of what's needed for MMA underdeveloped decides to play it smart and come up slowly. People recognize said specimen from earlier athletic accomplishments and view a couple of complete mismatches that lead to blowout wins.

    After said wins, the fans start to get impatient with how long it'll take this athlete to rise to the top. They start seeing the athlete's fights as a bum of the month means of record padding. Meanwhile, that athlete still hasn't had too many opportunities to stress test and shore up weaknesses.

    Finally, this athlete is left with a choice of striking when the iron is hot, picking up some money and probably taking a really high profile fight too early or continuing to play it smart and have no one care by the time said athlete really is up to the challenge.

    In Lashley's case his inexperience cost him a loss against another mid-level challenger he was expected to blow out and his MMA career was completely terminated as a result. The Judo damsel may have her MMA hopes quickly turn into a Kobayashi Maru if her hype plays out as hype tends to.

    Side note: Having written that I like this conversation better than the editorial I'm writing about Pacquiao v Juan-Ma 3. I think I'll just put that aside and turn what I'm saying here into this evening's editorial, instead.
  4. Lampa is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/29/2010 4:46pm

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    Here you go

    Click the link for basically what I said, only more carefully edited and with a great deal more detail and elaboration. And here I was on bullshido because I was having trouble making an editorial for this evening. I'm sure I can wait until tomorrow to finish rattling off about Pacquiao like every other asshole with a computer and a venue for people to listen to him.
  5. BKR is online now
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    My dog is cuter and smarter than yours.

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    Posted On:
    11/29/2010 5:13pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lindz View Post
    A different type of adversity? I'm just speculating based on how sometimes guys who are great at straight bjj are unable to out grapple people with inferior jits because they aren't used to getting punched in the face
    Well, top level judo training is pretty brutal. I've had my nose broken, multiple concussions, scratched corneas, multiple busted lips, broken teeth, black eyes, and once a scratch on the roof of my mouth when somebodies thumb got jabbed in my mouth (you can bet I was washing my mouth out with peroxide ASAP!).

    And I was not a top level judoka, although I trained with them.

    So I think Ronda can probably handle getting knocked around, even if it involves getting hit in the head. If she can't, it will come out in training I'm sure and a solution found or she will not make it in MMA.

    I personally would never make it in MMA. I HATE getting punched in the head, and I found that out during a foray into boxing when I was a kid. It was fun until I got clocked, and I quit on the spot. My opinion has not changed.

    In any case, your point is taken. HOpefully she can take a punch, whatever mental and physical/emotional fortitude that takes.

    Do you think it's possible for her to not be the greatest striker in the world and still succeed, if she is able to protect herself well enough to get to grappling range, and integrate striking with her grappling to the point where they actually flow/work well together?

    Or is that some sort of unachievable myth in MMA? I do not know enough about MMA to have an informed opinion.

    Ben
  6. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/29/2010 5:17pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lampa View Post
    This is going to be important. Handling getting hit has been a tripping point in MMA for top level grapplers before. And, I hope no one has forgotten that the current lady at the top of 145 has an iron chin, good hands, and an uncanny ability to force her opponents into a brawl.

    And my comment about her being forced to bite off more than she can chew doesn't have much to do with her own intellect. We've seen this issue with lots of fighters, the first one coming to mind being Bobby Lashley.

    A physical specimen with one superlative skillset and the rest of what's needed for MMA underdeveloped decides to play it smart and come up slowly. People recognize said specimen from earlier athletic accomplishments and view a couple of complete mismatches that lead to blowout wins.

    After said wins, the fans start to get impatient with how long it'll take this athlete to rise to the top. They start seeing the athlete's fights as a bum of the month means of record padding. Meanwhile, that athlete still hasn't had too many opportunities to stress test and shore up weaknesses.

    Finally, this athlete is left with a choice of striking when the iron is hot, picking up some money and probably taking a really high profile fight too early or continuing to play it smart and have no one care by the time said athlete really is up to the challenge.

    In Lashley's case his inexperience cost him a loss against another mid-level challenger he was expected to blow out and his MMA career was completely terminated as a result. The Judo damsel may have her MMA hopes quickly turn into a Kobayashi Maru if her hype plays out as hype tends to.

    Side note: Having written that I like this conversation better than the editorial I'm writing about Pacquiao v Juan-Ma 3. I think I'll just put that aside and turn what I'm saying here into this evening's editorial, instead.
    Nice post, I appreciate the effort. Ronda is pretty smart, and seems to be getting good guidance/training. Hopefully she will take the longer term view if she wants to stay in the MMA game.

    Ben
  7. BKR is online now
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    Posted On:
    11/29/2010 5:20pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lampa View Post
    Here you go

    Click the link for basically what I said, only more carefully edited and with a great deal more detail and elaboration. And here I was on bullshido because I was having trouble making an editorial for this evening. I'm sure I can wait until tomorrow to finish rattling off about Pacquiao like every other asshole with a computer and a venue for people to listen to him.
    Nice analysis, I hope Ronda reads it.

    Ben
  8. Lampa is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/29/2010 8:27pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Nice analysis, I hope Ronda reads it.

    Ben
    Thanks. Though, since we don't have a presence in California, yet (working on it) I'm not sure she or anyone training at Hayastan will find it unless someone sends it to her.

    As to your question directed at another poster regarding striking ability, Brock Lesnar made it to the top of his division and he, while he can take a great punch, was unable to keep his composure when getting hit. But, the first time that someone incautiously put his hands to Lesnar's face he went out harsh.

    Striking ability is nowhere near as important for high level grapplers in MMA as grace under striking pressure is. And that's something Ronda will have to learn by getting punched in the face. No training, no matter how far beyond the depth of a white collar queermo like me, that does not include getting punched in the face can prepare her for that. This is something I believe you touched on yourself in reference to your youth boxing.
  9. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/29/2010 8:53pm

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     Style: Judo

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    My perspective on the gap between elite Judo players and normal human beings.

    The highest level Judoka I have ever done randori with is a European medallist, now for those of you who haven't even done randori with a national champion its probably hard to comprehend just how far and away a continental medallist is away from recreational Judoka like us.

    We're talking a level of control where you can't even grip you have both your hands off their gi whilst they have complete control of you. Its actually pretty difficult to get your head round how dominated an elite level Judo player can make you feel. They throw you with what they want, when they want and then laugh about how easy it is to do so. They can stand at the mat edge pick a point on the mat and tell you they're going to throw you with De ashi barai at that point on the mat and then do so regardless of what you try and do to avoid it.

    Then we get to how hard they throw. I like to think I have good ukemi for a 1st dan and have been thrown pretty hard and been able to 'bounce' back up. However, you try being uke for a Judoka on that level and they literally whack you into the mat as if they're trying to throw you into the room below. Now when you consider that that's them toning things down to demonstration level on a part timer, you get a brief glimpse of how devastating these guys and girls can be.

    I was recently uke for said European medalist doing O uchi gari, I have never hit the mat harder in my life. He literally through me throw the floor, and that's not even his tokuiwaza, I dread to think what would happen if he throw me with his tokuiwaza with bad intentions.

    Those of you who're Judo kyu grades on this forum have no idea what these elite level players are capable of. They're not just from another planet they're from another dimension.

    So bearing that in mind consider Ronda's performance and she is a world medallist and Olympic medallist. Ronda is so far ahead of the people she's fought so far its not even funny. If you put a gi on the people Ronda has fought, Ronda could put them in hospital. In fact Ronda could probably take everyone of the male kyu gradeson this board, one after the other, and bury them into the mat.

    So its not really a suprise she has waltzed through he opponents so far, because you're comparing skodas with a ferrari.
  10. WorldWarCheese is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/29/2010 10:06pm


     Style: Muay Thai n00b

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    for those of you who haven't even done randori with a national champion its probably hard to comprehend just how far and away a continental medallist is away from recreational Judoka like us.
    Quoted for truth. The best judoka I've ever met speak in hushed tones about the time they met/sparred top tier Mass. players (Nat. level judo)
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