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  1. Lindz is online now

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2010 12:36am

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     Style: Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    Ronda could probably take everyone of the male kyu gradeson this board, one after the other, and bury them into the mat.
    No argument there.
  2. Gidi is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2010 11:38am


     Style: Judo (noob) & BJJ (noob)

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    So its not really a suprise she has waltzed through he opponents so far, because you're comparing skodas with a ferrari.
    I think you're giving us too much respect with the Skoda thing.
    If Olympic level Judokas are Ferrari, I'm an old worn-out pair of shoes.

    But yeah, what you said is true.
    However, Judo for MMA is different than plain judo, never forget that.
  3. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/30/2010 1:06pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gidi View Post
    I think you're giving us too much respect with the Skoda thing.
    If Olympic level Judokas are Ferrari, I'm an old worn-out pair of shoes.
    Using this metric I place myself here:
  4. Shawarma is online now

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2010 1:19pm


     

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    Not getting my hopes up, really. Even extremely high level judo players seem to come up short when pitted against better rounded MMA fighters. I'm thinking here of Nastula and Yoshida, the latter of whom had a pretty good run against mid-level competition but got squashed by anyone top-ranked.

    Sincerely hope she takes a bunch more tune-up fights before even considering leaping into the big leagues, because Lady Wanderlei would knock her on her ass for sure with her sloppy-yet-effective brawling.
  5. BKR is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/30/2010 3:37pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lampa View Post
    Thanks. Though, since we don't have a presence in California, yet (working on it) I'm not sure she or anyone training at Hayastan will find it unless someone sends it to her.

    As to your question directed at another poster regarding striking ability, Brock Lesnar made it to the top of his division and he, while he can take a great punch, was unable to keep his composure when getting hit. But, the first time that someone incautiously put his hands to Lesnar's face he went out harsh.

    Striking ability is nowhere near as important for high level grapplers in MMA as grace under striking pressure is. And that's something Ronda will have to learn by getting punched in the face. No training, no matter how far beyond the depth of a white collar queermo like me, that does not include getting punched in the face can prepare her for that. This is something I believe you touched on yourself in reference to your youth boxing.
    That's a good explanation, thanks.

    I think what I was trying to say is, that Ronda absolutely has grace under pressure, albeit from her high level of Judo training. I know that most people who post here have never been around a true elite level athlete like Ronda. The amount of physical and emotional abuse one endures to get to her level in Judo is not really something most people understand.

    I've been exposed to it, and participated to some degree. She is one tough cookie, she had to be to make it as far in Judo.

    Now, how that will transfer to getting punched in the head, remains to be seen, but I'm optimistic for the reasons I've cited previously.

    On a perhaps sexist note, seeing such a beautiful young woman getting punched in the face isn't really my cup of tea. But, it's her life and her face, and I respect her desires to go where she wants to go in MMA.

    I understand what you said about Lesner. I guess in the end it boils down to the individual.

    Ben
  6. BKR is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/30/2010 3:49pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by judoka_uk View Post
    My perspective on the gap between elite Judo players and normal human beings.

    The highest level Judoka I have ever done randori with is a European medallist, now for those of you who haven't even done randori with a national champion its probably hard to comprehend just how far and away a continental medallist is away from recreational Judoka like us.

    We're talking a level of control where you can't even grip you have both your hands off their gi whilst they have complete control of you. Its actually pretty difficult to get your head round how dominated an elite level Judo player can make you feel. They throw you with what they want, when they want and then laugh about how easy it is to do so. They can stand at the mat edge pick a point on the mat and tell you they're going to throw you with De ashi barai at that point on the mat and then do so regardless of what you try and do to avoid it.

    Then we get to how hard they throw. I like to think I have good ukemi for a 1st dan and have been thrown pretty hard and been able to 'bounce' back up. However, you try being uke for a Judoka on that level and they literally whack you into the mat as if they're trying to throw you into the room below. Now when you consider that that's them toning things down to demonstration level on a part timer, you get a brief glimpse of how devastating these guys and girls can be.

    I was recently uke for said European medalist doing O uchi gari, I have never hit the mat harder in my life. He literally through me throw the floor, and that's not even his tokuiwaza, I dread to think what would happen if he throw me with his tokuiwaza with bad intentions.

    Those of you who're Judo kyu grades on this forum have no idea what these elite level players are capable of. They're not just from another planet they're from another dimension.

    So bearing that in mind consider Ronda's performance and she is a world medallist and Olympic medallist. Ronda is so far ahead of the people she's fought so far its not even funny. If you put a gi on the people Ronda has fought, Ronda could put them in hospital. In fact Ronda could probably take everyone of the male kyu gradeson this board, one after the other, and bury them into the mat.

    So its not really a suprise she has waltzed through he opponents so far, because you're comparing skodas with a ferrari.
    This would be my experience as well. My home dojo sensei was a national level judoka in -95 kg. Our joint sensei in Ft.Worth, TX, was an all japan champion (weight class), and silver medalist in the world championships in 1975 (he lost to Rouge). My home sensei was incredible. Our Japanese sensei was world class. Japanese sensei could destroy you if he wanted to. Literally, break your bones with a throw. Fortunately, he usually pulled back. I did get hit with Tai Otoshi a couple of times when he was pissed at me for slacking. I had to be carried off the mat with bruised ribs and unable to breath (really, dragged off the mat and dumped in the corner).

    National level to world class in Judo is usually a big jump-it's exponential in many cases. I'm sure it's the same in MMA, BJJ, etc. The highest levels seem supernatural.

    Sorry for the reminiscing, guys, I'm grateful for the experiences I've had although I never approached that level of success or skill.

    Hopefully Ronda can transfer her determination, toughness, and skill to MMA as she wishes.

    I do not think we have yet seen a top level judoka in their physical/technical prime develop strategies and tactics in MMA that successfully integrate their Judo skills.

    I don't know if it's possible, but it seems to me that it should be. If Ronda gets the right training, she may be able to do it.

    Ben
  7. BKR is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/30/2010 3:58pm

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     Style: Kodokan Judo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shawarma View Post
    Not getting my hopes up, really. Even extremely high level judo players seem to come up short when pitted against better rounded MMA fighters. I'm thinking here of Nastula and Yoshida, the latter of whom had a pretty good run against mid-level competition but got squashed by anyone top-ranked.

    Sincerely hope she takes a bunch more tune-up fights before even considering leaping into the big leagues, because Lady Wanderlei would knock her on her ass for sure with her sloppy-yet-effective brawling.
    Point taken, but something to consider.

    Neither Nastula nor Yoshida were in their prime physically or technically when they entered the MMA arena.

    Ronda is actually getting into MMA at the beginning of her world class Judo success, still in the age range of her physical peak. I do not think she has peaked technically, particularly in her throwing skills. I think her ne waza is maybe at a higher level, but not peaked yet either.

    Akiyama was closer to his peak, but on the down side nonetheless.

    Ben
  8. Res Judicata is offline

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    Posted On:
    11/30/2010 4:51pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Point taken, but something to consider.

    Neither Nastula nor Yoshida were in their prime physically or technically when they entered the MMA arena.

    Ronda is actually getting into MMA at the beginning of her world class Judo success, still in the age range of her physical peak. I do not think she has peaked technically, particularly in her throwing skills. I think her ne waza is maybe at a higher level, but not peaked yet either.

    Akiyama was closer to his peak, but on the down side nonetheless.

    Ben
    Satoshi Ishii is the only one really comparable, I think. They're both 23.
  9. BKR is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/30/2010 7:05pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Res Judicata View Post
    Satoshi Ishii is the only one really comparable, I think. They're both 23.
    Yes, but he seems to have some sort of attitude problem? He a a world class judoka, but somehow does not impress me that much in Judo at least. Ronda does. She is better at ne waza as well.

    I also do not know if he actually trained somewhere that understood Judo enough to devise a plan capitalize on his existing skill set.

    Ben
  10. judoka_uk is offline
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    Posted On:
    11/30/2010 7:11pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by BKR View Post
    Yes, but he seems to have some sort of attitude problem? He a a world class judoka, but somehow does not impress me that much in Judo at least. Ronda does. She is better at ne waza as well.

    I also do not know if he actually trained somewhere that understood Judo enough to devise a plan capitalize on his existing skill set.

    Ben
    I agree that he seems to have had some attitude problems or cockyness issues.

    However, his recent MMA fight against Minowaman was a textbook example of how to use Judo to control an MMA fight. Whoever trained him for that fight has a very good understanding of how to utilisie Judo in an MMA match.
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