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  1. Emevas is offline
    Emevas's Avatar

    Dysfunctionally Strong

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    Posted On:
    2/21/2004 12:10am

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hey, I used the search function. Went to combat discussion forums, entered SJM, nothing turned up. If it's been discussed a few thousand times, it didn't show up.

    I walk into this topic and openly admit to my ignorance, in the hopes that someone who represents the style could enlighten me. I was unaware that this was against the policies of bullshido. I was under the impression that this place was meant to remove bullshit from the MA world (such as my thoughts that SMJ could be utilized against a BJJer with relative effectiveness), but it seems that you would rather the same bullshit myths and rumors remain out there.

    I'd like to point out that you are the only poster in this thread who seems to have a problem with me walking in here, saying "Hey guys, I know **** all about BJJ, and had a question in regards to the art". Everyone else seemed more than willing to educate me, so that I could continue my training without such foolish thoughts in my head.
    Last edited by Emevas; 2/21/2004 1:07am at .
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  2. Hannibal is offline

    Grandmaster Sensei of Village Idiocy

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    Posted On:
    2/21/2004 1:00am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kyokushin and Judo.

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    To hell with using the search function.

    Everytime you enter the key words for information on what you need to know you get something like fifty fucking pages full of threads. Come on, by the time you sort through all of the threads on all of those pages your looking at hours of sorting through ****.
    Hannibal: The sworn enemy of dishonest politicians, source of entertainment on Bullshido and newly appointed Office Linebacker. Terry Tait ain't got **** on me !!!!
  3. The Wastrel is offline
    The Wastrel's Avatar

    Such as thou art, sometime was I.

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    Posted On:
    2/21/2004 1:11am

    supporting member
     Style: Brazilian Jiujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I found quite a few by searching "small joint manipulation".

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/sear...der=descending

    Anyway, relax man. I certainly didn't flame you. Just please understand that this is another one of those perennial favorites.
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the **** I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog
  4. Emevas is offline
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    Dysfunctionally Strong

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    Posted On:
    2/21/2004 1:55am

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by The Wastrel
    I found quite a few by searching "small joint manipulation".

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/sear...der=descending

    Anyway, relax man. I certainly didn't flame you. Just please understand that this is another one of those perennial favorites.
    I getcha, I just didn't find anything searching before, so figured this was fair game.

    I put "small joint manipulation" into search in the combat sports forum, and it still didn't go into anything about how BJJ would counter it (aside from this thread). At this point, if it has been discussed, it was not discussed in the proper forum (due to the fact that my question was specifically geared towards the combat sport BJJ, rather than focusing on SJM.)
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  5. Punisher is offline
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    Seeker of Truth

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    Posted On:
    2/21/2004 12:20pm

    supporting member
     Style: Five Animal Fighting

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "Punisher, are you serious? While small joint manipulation is sometimes effective, wrist locks are damn near useless and the smaller joints dont incapacitate the opponent. Its really just asking for a high level of retribution."

    It really depends. I don't think SJM is an uberweapon, but it's worthy to add to your bag of tricks.

    Sometimes techniques psychologically instead of physically, incapacitate people. I've seen a fight ended before it started by a good finger lock. The guy wasn't willing to sacrifice his fingers to continue a petty scuffle.
  6. PeedeeShaolin is offline
    PeedeeShaolin's Avatar

    Co-Founder, Retired Admin

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    Posted On:
    2/21/2004 1:38pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Karate,

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A question in response to a question:

    If you take your right hand and try and grab my hand to break my fingers, whats to stop me from taking my other hand and shoving my thumb as far as I can into your eye socket? Round and round we go....
    "All warfare is based on deception." -Sun Tzu, ca. 400BC


    Reverse punch Kiaii!!!
  7. 9chambers

    Guest

    Posted On:
    2/21/2004 2:15pm


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I used a finger lock one once in a real fight on the ground. I landed on the ground in the turtle and the guy landed on top of me and put his hands on my head. I grabbed a finger and cranked it, stood him up with it and walked him back a few steps. As a result he quit the fight and took off. (more happened prior to the finger thing) I am not using that example to say that SJM is a good option. This was just one of those fluke occasions where the chance was right there so I took it. This guy was not a grappler, he was just some big gangsta wannabe.

    If someone had tried to do the same thing to me then it would not have worked. I would have punched his fist and pulled my finger away, sunk my hooks in and slapped on the RNC. That's if our positions were reversed. Still, those fingerlocks can come in handy sometimes. I wouldn't throw them away. There are wristlocks and fingerlocks in both Japanese and Brazilian Jiu Juitsu. If the Gracie's thought they were useless then they wouldn't still teach them.

    I am going to have to agree that they will never be a very practical option on the ground - but if you manage to grab a wrist and crank it fast enough to injure a guy then it might effect his grip. The problem is .. if you had the time, leverage and opportunity to do this then you most likely had the time, leverage and opportunity to strike him or get an choke. Someday it may be your only option though. It's good to know these just in case. Also, even though a hardened BJJ and MMA person might shrug off a broken finger .. hey, some clown at a bar might freak out and whimper like a baby when you snap his finger in two.
    Last edited by 9chambers; 2/21/2004 2:17pm at .
  8. Perfection is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    2/21/2004 2:23pm


     Style: Whatever Works

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is in response to the original question and to completely reinforce whats already been said. Everything involving fighting, from top to bottom involves some sort of positional dominance. Whether its BJJ or even TKD. If you have this, you can do what you want because you're in control of the fight.

    Anyway, I have to agree with Punisher. Even though I know locks are beyond difficult to apply when someone's mind snaps and they go all out, I do think that there has to be someone out there who understands how to use them in competition or else they would not have banned them from UFCs.

    I went to a SCARS camp in 2000 and Jerry Peterson asked a random guy from the crowd to tackle him. The guy tackled him and was all over Jerry, trying his best to ride him. About 3 seconds passed while they were on the ground and the guy stopped and his arm was twisted into a wrist lock. He was locked up and he basically put himself into the move because Jerry didn't move his body or struggle at all. He did something similar against a single leg takedown as well.

    Rigante, if you can recall something similar to this, can you bring me back up to speed on what happened? They weren't on the Compression tapes, (which I don't really like because the shooter/grappler's shoulders are *always* extended past his knees) but what Jerry did was somewhat along the same lines. I wouldn't rely on it in a fight but I'm curious to know exactly what was happening.

    Sincerely,

    Ken
  9. Boyd is offline
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    OFFICIAL Mayor of Cwcville

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    Posted On:
    2/21/2004 3:15pm

    supporting member
     Style: Electricity, Speed

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by Emevas
    But how do you grapple effectively with broken fingers/thumbs? Doesn't that make it difficult (if not impossible) to maintain an effective hold on someone?
    Jean Jacques Machado was born without fingers on one of his hands, and he's a semi-decent grappler.
    Captain's Log: Just a little update for all my TRUE and HONEST friends out there:

    1) I am STRAIGHT! I am STRAIGHT! Get it through your thick skulls, numbskulls!

    2) My name is not Ian Brandon Something.

    3) Kacey is coming with me now. I have stolen her from the other Christian Weston Chandler.

    REMINDER: I am still the one and only true creator of sonichu and rosechu electric hedgehog pokemon
  10. Hedgehogey is offline
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    Tsun-Derrorist

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    Posted On:
    2/21/2004 5:12pm

    supporting member
     Style: ^_^

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    GOOD LORD I LEAVE FOR FOUR DAYS AND FAGGOTRY IS BOILING OUT OF THE POT OF BULLSHIDO AND GETTING ALL OVER THE STOVETOP OF MARTIAL ARTS

    Did 9chambers really suggest PUNCHING A FIST?

    Is perfection really saying the way peterson beats a single leg is by NOT MOVING?

    I LEAVE YOU KIDS AlONE FOR FIVE MINUTES AND YOU'RE ALREADY FINGERING EACH OTHER


    "The only important elements in any society
    are the artistic and the criminal,
    because they alone, by questioning the society's values,
    can force it to change."-Samuel R. Delany

    RENDERING GELATINOUS WINDMILL OF DICKS

    THIS IS GOING TO BE THE BEST NON-EUCLIDIAN SPLATTERJOUST EVER

    It seems that the only people who support anarchy are faggots, who want their pathetic immoral lifestyle accepted by the mainstream society. It wont be so they try to create their own.-Oldman34, friend to all children
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