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  1. patfromlogan is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/01/2010 10:23am

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     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Exposing the Myth
    By Joe Lewis

    Joe published an article called Street Fighting for Black Belt Magazine. The document below is the full-length article Joe wrote but much of the content was cut out due to space limitations within the magazine.

    People pursuing martial arts have been for years conditioned to ask all the wrong questions. The classic misleading question, "What combat martial art is the best?" The real question should be, "Why do I need martial arts?" Martial arts is like dieting; it is not, "What do I eat," but more importantly, "Why do I eat?" When access to facts is withheld and we fail to investigate the unproven claims, myths arise.

    Martial arts is flooded with myths. There are students who believe if they can emulate or fight like a snake or praying mantis or even a monkey, this method automatically grants them superiority. This accepted practice is as ill fated as the myth that all members in a martial arts class should execute techniques exactly the same. Short people cannot fight as if they are tall, small people cannot fight like they're big, and nor can slow people be expected to emulate those who are genetically quick.

    Also, small people are even taught to practice their drills standing directly in front of opponents who are often much larger. If you're short or small, you must learn how to fight like a short or small person. In the animal kingdom, snakes don't fight like birds nor do tigers fight like butterflies. Humans have many technical challenges to overcome without trying to learn to fight like some kind of bird or insect or other animal type. Learning to fight like a human is difficult enough.

    Out of this abyss of untested nonsense surfaces another untouchable phenomena called the "streetfighter." Professional fighters and martial arts instructors are often harassed by this peripheral group who lack the same dedication, the willingness to train in public, or the confidence to compete. These types consistently claim that they are legitimate fighters, even better than those who compete in the ring. Unlike real fighters, they pretend to be immune to judgment. Some of their familiar self-endowments are, "deadliest man alive" or "king of the streetfighters."

    Fighters fight and runners race. They each love competition. Records of wins and losses are administered and include dates, locations, and opponents. A small handful of the ambitious best become world-class professionals, called fighters. This status is earned, never self-proclaimed.

    The only "records" streetfighters have are down at the police department. The seasoned officers with whom I've worked describe their many encounters with streetfighters, for the most part, as being nothing more than a joke. These officers report that in the end, all they have is a big mouth.

    The word, "streetfighter," always bothered me. It reminds me of the term, "killer instinct." There is no such thing as a killer instinct. Journalists conjured up the term to describe the boxer, Jack Dempsey. "Streetfighter" is a word in the dictionary; however, at age 57, I have witnessed many fights, but to date, never a single one has taken place in the street. I think of a so-called "streetfighter" as either being some hoodlum, terrorist, or immature kid often being the one who creates fights. Usually, their "records" consist of beating up some drunks, a few kids, and even probably a couple of poor bums. These types respect violence.

    When kids are exposed to adults using violence, such as a parent beating a child, they absorb two messages; one, that adults condone violence and second, that adults use violence to solve problems. This is where all world wars begin. If you're proud to call yourself a streetfighter, I hope, along with all our kids, that you never move into our neighborhood.

    Two things about the streetfighter amuse me. What purpose is being served with a practice of suspending rational thought in order to self-appoint oneself the title of "streetfighter," and then with the same zeal, grant the streetfighter higher combat status, claiming ring fighters can't streetfight? What major flaws does anyone detect rendering pro fighters helpless or at a disadvantage in a street fight when observing sport fighters, the likes of Mike Tyson or Frank Shamrock and others?

    There are those who claim ring fighting isn't practical or real. What is unreal or impractical or less deadly about a kick, a knee, or a punch that knocks a ring opponent out and sometimes kills? Also, what about a choke or joint lock, which could also kill or render an opponent instantly helpless?

    From physical strength to mental toughness, there is no identifiable attribute of streetfighters unavailable to ring fighters. Sometimes, the technique mechanics are different. For example, if you research boxing's history, you would note that the bare-knuckle fighters kept their palms facing upward. If they had punched like today's gloved fighters, who learn to rotate their punches, turning the palms downwards at contact, then they would have destroyed their hands.

    Also, the intent of a technique can vary. I could strike you and abstain from hurting you, strike as if I'm abusing and spanking you, hurt, punish, torture, slaughter, or even bury you. Each of these elevating intents vary in degrees of effect. Sometimes, of course, your aggressor may show up with a weapon or others to outnumber you, but then these factors do not make streetfighters better. This only creates the old "what if" scenario. What if the ring fighter pulls out his own gun and so on?

    Take 10 top professional fighters ("K-1," "U.F.C.," "Pride," etc.) and put them into a street context. Most rational experts would overwhelmingly select the outcome to largely favor the pros. And if you put the streetfighter in a ring sport context, I can't see anyone having any hope for the streetfighter.

    Streetfighting does have its place, but is streetfighting nothing more than a well-timed trick or sucker punch? One of my older brothers had a nasty reputation back in his day. One night he sat down next to a woman sitting alone in some nightclub. Seconds later, her enraged boyfriend appeared at the table standing over my brother, demanding he step outside. My brother stood up with his beer bottle in his hand and said, "Sure, just let me finish my beer." As he put the bottle to his mouth, he suddenly drops it, simultaneously decking the guy, punching him with the right hand in which he had held the beer. During my younger years, my older brothers taught me a great deal about these types of altercations. This situation with my brother illustrates the oldest tactic known to man, "surprise attack."

    Just because you put the word, "street," in front of the word, "fighter," does not make you omnipotent. The word has no magic powers nor does it mean that any untested combatant could automatically last 10 to 12 grueling rounds absorbing dozens of world-class educated punches and kicks or grappling maneuvers. Nor could the streetfighter maintain professional speed, power, and accuracy, which take years of hard training to develop, working with tough sparring partners aided by profoundly smart trainers.

    Neither is one granted a winning composure at all times in the face of any struggle, fatigue, stress, or physical pain and be backed up with the fact that you have a long tested career demonstrating during all your fights a marked willingness to always remain engaged while maintaining an inner conviction to never quit. These are a few of the attributes real fighters acquire after years of hard work and consistent dedication. These can only come! Working in real scenarios against well-prepared world-class fighters.

    In the military, we also emulate the success of armies that win, not those who only talk. My black belt fighters acquire through action the ability to go 8, 10, 12 rounds with a well-prepared world-class fighter and to be able to look him in the eye and let him know five things. One, he can't handle my speed; two, he can't handle my power; three, he can't hurt me; four, that I will never get tired; and five, I will never quit.

    If you have never endured the experience standing toe to toe with this type of world-class fighter while having him fire educated punches, kicks, elbows, and knees with cold-blooded, world-class accuracy and conviction, then you can't speak from knowledge or with any confidence, nor have the slightest clue about what you're talking on the subject of fighting.

    Lastly, I can assure you that a much greater number of ring fighters have tested and proven their skills in the "street" than the number of streetfighters who have ever entered the ring. If you took 10 top ring fighters and 10 top streetfighters and let each group test their skills in the other's forum, which would have the higher winning percentage? A ring fighter's abilities will always, hands down, work far better for him in the street than a streetfighter's abilities could ever help him in a ring fight.

    Joe Lewis
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
  2. patfromlogan is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/01/2010 9:01pm

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     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hey, I didn't mean to kill the thread....
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
  3. pokeroo is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/02/2010 10:58pm


     Style: mma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by fug View Post
    Hey, I didn't mean to kill the thread....
    No it was a really good article. I read it and enjoyed it a lot. I think the thread was winding down to death anyway as we all got tired of making fun of the OP for asking that noob question in a place other than noobietown.

    So back to the OP... He was considering taking "Kar-Do-Jitsu-Ryu" because supposedly he can't find anything else in the "hell-hole" that he lives in. I have never heard of it, so I cant comment.

    -Sounds like some hybrid that someone made up incorporating jiujutsu of some sort into it.

    Anyway back to the main differences between a streetfight and a ring fight. There's also a good section on this difference in the book that Jack dempsey wrote. No need to quote it here because anyone can download it if they just do a google search.

    When it comes to difference between a street fight and a ring fight, there are going to be some differences depending on how you define streetfighting. For example does the OP mean a self defense scenario where your attacked by 1 or more people, or the kind of fight kimbo slice used to have before he got into mma?

    Also I have been thinking, maybe there is a little more to self defense than we give credit here on bullshido. For example, in a self defense situation where your attacked by more than 1 person of equal or greater size and running is not an option, you want to end the attack fast, stay on your feet, and get away as fast as possible. In a ring situation you might use a teep to keep your distance from an attacker. In an underground parking lot you might aim the teep at the opponent's knee cap instead of their stomache to bust up their knee so they can't continue, and they can't run after you. In the ring this would be an illegal move that would disqualify you and result in a loss by DQ or no contest. In a self defense situation I would say it would result in survival and escape.
    The problem is that you can't train at full force to bust your attacker's knee cap with a non-compliant partner, because you would seriously injure your training partner.
    So the question becomes if you are looking for a MA to provide self-defense, what kind of mix do you sign up for? If you train to fight by a given rule set, how hard is it to switch into survival mode if your attacked in the streets? If you train techniques that are too dangerous to practice in a live manner, how well will they work when you are put under pressure?

    I think I can guess at what the opinions will mostly be here, but hey, lets beat this dead horse. Lets use this dead horse the way rocky beat dead cattle to prepare for Apollo Creed.
  4. FakeFuSatire is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/03/2010 4:59pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: JuJitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kimbo Slice was a shitty "Streetboxer". I saw that video where he fights the cop, and they're whining about holding and ****. All he could do was swing with bare knuckles, nothing talented in that.
  5. patfromlogan is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/03/2010 8:00pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Obviously in sd you aren't concerned with being able to continue for rounds of fighting, etc etc Here's one good video of how a legit ma handles sd against multiples:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWTZwKBBoQc


    and the famous Pimp takes on karate instructor (It's one of the funny ones)

    YouTube- Knocked Out By Karate Instructor
    Last edited by patfromlogan; 6/03/2010 8:05pm at .
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
  6. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    6/05/2010 9:35pm

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by pokeroo View Post
    YouTube- Bullshido.net Presents Lord Asia's Martial Arts Instructional Video

    In the street the only attack you need to worry about is a lunge punch. A jab or a hook may work in the ring but they will fail in the street. If your opponent comes at you with any other attack than a lunge punch, your not in any danger!
    Exactly! If he doesn't lunge punch you're safe! I was attacked by the Taliban a few weeks ago. They had AKs, grenades, and suicide vests. HOWEVER not one of them knew how to lunge punch so we were fine. :ninjadanc
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  7. Pen is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/05/2010 10:19pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: jiu/ju/kettlebells/cma

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    1. The advice about wrestling if you're still in school is great.
    2. Even lousy kickboxing, as long as they spar, is probably better than the school you're looking at.
    3. Boxing tends to be pretty cheap and widely available as well; see if that's around somewhere.
    4. I could make a really really good case for going and doing judo once a week, and using the rest of the week to get hella strong and conditioned. Power lifting or olympic lifting with conditioning, or kettlebell lifting, together with things like pullups, rope climbing, whatever. This is especially true if you're planning on moving anywhere in the next couple of years.
    5. Agree with the previous poster who said do the judo once a week anyway no matter what.
  8. gregaquaman is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/06/2010 2:33am

    Join us... or die
     Style: mma /boxing/muai thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have allways had a different feeling about the streev vs ring.

    They start and end quicker and you are not allways told when that will be.

    They cover more space. people who have the whole world to fight in tend to fight differently more running.

    More random stuff happens(this is where I will i put my idea of less space). but also lava weapons and acts of god
  9. CarlosJesena is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2010 4:41am


     Style: BJJ, TKD, Lifting+Cardio

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by gregaquaman View Post
    I have allways had a different feeling about the streev vs ring.

    They start and end quicker and you are not allways told when that will be.

    They cover more space. people who have the whole world to fight in tend to fight differently more running.

    More random stuff happens(this is where I will i put my idea of less space). but also lava weapons and acts of god
    How to win on t3h d34dly str33tz:
    Step 1: Execute a throw on your attacker. Most likely, he doesn't know ukemi.
    Step 2: run away -end-

    Of course this theory is just speculation. JUST LIKE THE THEORIES OF MOST OF THESE PEOPLE GOING "STREET VS. SPORT"?
  10. Kovacs is offline
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    Posted On:
    6/06/2010 5:10am


     Style: 5x5, 5.56mm

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    That Joe Lewis article rocks, I'll be copy and pasting that bad boy for future reference.
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