Posted On:5/30/2010 3:13pm
Outstanding reply. In regards to the weight, are you addressing the Public Defender, or the Judge? Most Judges I've held were very bulky, but the PD only felt front heavy, rather than bulky.
Any experieence using 45LC with the weapon? I've seen reports of blatant horrible grouping to "good enough for defense, not for competition"
You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
Posted On:5/30/2010 8:20pm
Style: Jiu-Jitsu, Muay Thai, H&K
To clarify, I've only fondled the PD and shot the Judge twice. Also, .45 LC is hard ammo to find, so we fired some 410 only. Like I said, it's a fun gun to shoot. It's going to be heavy and bulky one way or another though when you're trying to carry something meant to hold a round meant for shotguns. No matter what handgun you choose to carry, keep in mind that you are always compromising power for size. There is no handgun that can deliver a round with the same power as a rifle or shotgun, and when you dive into the statistics the likelihood of any round from 9x19mm to .50 AE to stop an attacker with one shot is almost exactly the same. For example, according to handloads.com's gathered statistics from 2007 or so, 92% of people shot with 9mm rounds were stopped with one shot, and 94% of people shot with .45ACP were stopped with one shot. To put that in perspective, in 2 groups of 50 people that's a 1 person difference, and this study does NOT take shot placement into account. When you're choosing what handgun to carry, take a good while to think out what traits are important to you. For me, I'd probably make the same choice my friend did between the 2 and take a Glock 26, because with the difference in likelihood between all different handgun rounds versus the difference in speed of followup shots, I'll take the quicker follow up shots any day.
Posted On:5/30/2010 8:52pm
Well, thanks for cashing in on your experience. When I purchase the weapon, I'll give me input.
Edit: Oh yeah, as for my ultimate question, would you trust your life to the weapon, or do you feel that it's more just a novelty?
JC: Unfortunately, Minot has 1 gun range, and it doesn't do rentals.
Last edited by Emevas; 5/30/2010 8:58pm at .
Posted On:5/30/2010 11:43pm
Yes, I would trust my life to a Taurus Judge. However, it wouldn't be my primary, or even secondary, or tertiary choice... And so on... But revolvers are an inherently reliable and trustworthy platform. My pistols of choice are just more along the lines of Glocks, SIGs, 1911s, and revolvers in .357/.38.
Merry Christmas! shitter's full...
Posted On:5/31/2010 12:17am
an old client of mine had one.
he said it was a really fun gun to take to the range, it wasn't as comfortable to carry as he would have liked, it handled like he expected it to handle, he didn't consider it the best pistol he ever bought, but he didn't think his money was wasted.
i got to handle it once. not for me, i'm more of a 92s or 686 guy.
Originally Posted by it is fake
yeah, normally i'd get a quote, but couldn't be bothered.
Posted On:5/31/2010 6:52am
Style: BJJ, wrestling
Missing post moved here: Ain't misbehavin' - No BS MMA and Martial Arts
Choked out by Gene Lebell
Posted On:5/31/2010 7:18am
<<<I understand what Mark is saying about how it's well suited to 7 yards shooting, but it still doesn't hold up IMO. I'll explain...>>>
<<<1. The Taurus Judge line is a bunch of HUGE revolvers that would be extremely uncomfortable to carry. Trying to carry one every single day consistently would almost undoubtedly be very difficult and it's quite possible that MOST shooters would stop carrying one for something more lightweight.>>>
I am wondering if you have looked at ALL of the new models, as some are REALLY HUGE now, and others are much smaller than the first batch and some are being made with much lighter materials.
<<<What MTripp is saying makes plenty of sense, but I think there might be more thinking to do before buying the weapon.>>>
NOT if the context of 7 feet is maintained. You are about to change that context, which of course changes the entire conversation.
<<<In the arguments against Wing Chun and Aikido, people criticize practitioners for settling for enough skill to take on somebody untrained.>>>
I reject this premise as that has never been the case. The real issues here are that they do NOT work at all in the context of a violent personal assault. My experience with Aikido people is that they believe in outrageous things like ki power and the like. The issue is not about the "untrained" person, it is about an "experienced" fighter, no matter where that experience comes from. Also, it is almost always about martial art vs martial sport, to wit, how do you know you can make this stuff work against a resisting opponent?
Neither of those are really in play here.
<<<In my argument against the Judge, I criticize being satisfied with 7 yard performance in a similar way. Just because most unarmed attackers aren't trained doesn't mean that you should train only for fighting the untrained, and just because most armed confrontations take place within 7-15 yards doesn't mean that you should only train and have a weapon suited to 7-15 yards.>>>
This of course ignores the reason handguns were created in the first place. The purpose of a handgun is to have something easy to carry and use in a violent encounter one did not expect to happen. The rifle and the shotgun will always beat the handgun. However, the issues of size, weight, ability to carry, etc, come into play even more with a long gun.
IF you feel you live a life where you are going to have to engage goblins at further ranges, you should have a rifle in your hands. However, here is the core point that is always missed, there is a reason EVERY violent assault save ONE takes place up close and personal, I have to be very close to do the deed. I can not rob, rape, kidnap, carjack, get to you a private place to kill you, etc, from even 3 yards away, let alone 7 to 17. Yes, I can murder you from a very long distance. If you are living a life where you are on someones hit list, then you need to get into the witness protection program.
I simply am saying if we look at the data from Kleck to the NRA's "Armed Citizen" we see that the distances are much closer than we assume. Which, BTW, no one is training for. If we are going to discuss training for 17 yards, I submit we need to be training for 3 feet. To draw and fire at 3 feet is an entirely different set of skills, and damn few people understand them and work on them. However, it is that context to which I think this Taurus fits perfectly.
<<<Just sort of came to me that I do need to take into account where I live compared to where Mr. Tripp lives. I know there's a huge difference between the weather of Phoenix, AZ and the weather pretty much anywhere in MI, so it may be easier for somebody to carry something so bulky in less heat.>>>
DING! Took you long enough to get here! : P
My usual daily carry tool is an H&K P7M8. BTW, I can nail people even further than 17 yards with that. However, I think Fairbairn has some very good points in shooting to live. One of those points is a hammerless revolver, in the pocket, with your hand all ready on it, is going to be the best personal protection for an unexpected encounter. He even goes as far as to say it should be in your left pocket because you can begin firing as your right hand is going for your service weapon.
Before anyone speaks to that concept, I know of a MAJOR State Police Agency that went to that approach MANY years ago. When they walk up to any car for any reason, their left hand is in the pocket and on a S&W .38 Bodyguard. On several occasions it has saved officers lives. It has saved mine too.
The problem is with this kind of carry, you can not use the sights, you can not even direct the gun much. It is VERY hard to get a solid hit with a .38 that way. I see the .410 concept being a very big assist in this type of carry because you are sending out more stuff towards the bad guy.
However, as you surmised, it NEVER gets cold enough in AZ (at least not for this Michigan boy) to even wear a field jacket or pea coat, so the point is moot. Were I to be in your neck of the woods the H & K would be in a Yaqui Slide and I'd have one of those camera vest things on. However, were I to be in snake country in your neck of the woods, likely that Taurus would be back on my hip.
But it gets too damn hot for me to even think about living there. Also, with the current political situation down there I am expecting any day to see a re-inactment of the storming of the Alamo.
Other comments here are little more than flummery.
How accurate it is with .45 long colt is moot. If that was to be your main load choose a different firearm. As to how accurate it is with .410 over a larger distance is a) being addressed with new loads and b) moot under the context of the distance and situations it was created for.
In closing, I will share my core training motto with everyone.
"Use your intelligence guided by your experience." If you lack the latter I can share mine with you. If you lack the former may God help you."
"Out of every hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back." -- Hericletus, circa 500 BC
Posted On:5/31/2010 9:58am
Zaohu and WK: Thank you both for sharing your experiences.
Also, WK: When you say it's not for you, anything in particular stand out for the weapon? Was it a handling issue, or more a capability one?
Posted On:5/31/2010 11:34am
the way it sits in my hands is rather uncomfortable for me, and i don't particularly like shooting large caliber rounds. it's more of a novelty for me that wore off after shooting a .50AE, .454 causal, 500 mag, and the like.
after learning to shoot pistols with a ruger mark 1, and shooting everything up to a desert eagle .50, i really only enjoy shooting .9mm and .357/.38 special.
like i said though, it's a fun piece for a range, it has real home defense applications, and it wouldn't be a waste of your money if you enjoy shooting it.
it's just not my cup of tea.
Posted On:5/31/2010 12:01pm
Much love. I appreciate the input.
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