Thread: 3 Deep Half Guard Leg Positions
5/28/2010 10:24pm, #11
5/29/2010 12:02pm, #12
"The only important elements in any society
are the artistic and the criminal,
because they alone, by questioning the society's values,
can force it to change."-Samuel R. Delany
RENDERING GELATINOUS WINDMILL OF DICKS
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5/29/2010 9:55pm, #13
5/30/2010 2:56am, #14
- Join Date
- Nov 2005
- Washington State
5/30/2010 10:18am, #15
I'm a smaller guy, so when I get bigger training partners in my half guard, I too have trouble making space and keeping distance. One thing I've learned to use is the outside butterfly hook, in a half butterfly rather than traditional half guard. Even if you get both underhooks, one under his arm and the other under his leg for the elevator sweep, if you have a good top half guard player, he will shut you down quickly - the butterfly hook gives you a little more leverage so that you can get his hips up in the air quicker and with less effort. Depending on how much space I get, I get my hips underneath for deep half guard or x-guard.
Aeso has a video of half butterfly with the overhook, but again I like using the hook whether I have an overhook or underhook.
As shown in the video, that hook can also be used to regain butterfly guard. I find that even if the top person is smashing his weight down, it puts your legs in the position for the 93 guard (a la Robson Moura) so that you can at least keep him from totally flattening you if you cannot elevator.
Regarding deep half guard, Omega is totally right when he says the neck and inside arm are vulnerable to submissions (I lost in the final of a local tourney a while back when I kept my head unprotected in DHG). Protecting your neck is juat a matter of not letting the top person flatten you out - once I slide under his leg, I really clear my top shoulder as much as possible under his leg (using the Stephan Kesting video as an example, he's got the right leg of his training partner trapped, so I'm talking about the right shoulder), so that I am completely on my right side, looking at the same direction as him. Kesting's video has him flat on his back, looking at the ceiling, and I've seen DHG played this way, but I do not prefer it.
As for the inside arm (would be Kesting's left arm), it's open for kimuras, so as soon as I slide under for the DHG, I like to drive that arm under his leg, keeping it tight to myself as possible so that he cannot swim his left arm under it for the kimura. There are some skirt controls that you can use in DHG, so this puts your arm in a great position to establish those as well.
Hope this helps.
5/30/2010 11:18am, #16
Okay, here's my little lecture about this: DHG (as it will now be known) is just a half guard transition. Like anything else it's learning when and where to hang out with it. I would not suggest anybody hang out in the DHG. Wait for attackers to put themselves in it. Hell I have a guard I call the spiderman guard which has everything to do with what I'm doing to aggravate the top person as he tries to pass my guard. I wouldn't recommend it for anybody. Lockdown, half butterfly guard, DHG they're all just sub-positions. I know it goes without saying to most of you but when you put them all together you'll have a decent half guard game. I had one of my fighters become obsessed over this move to the point he decided it would be a good move to pull in his fight, against a Div 1 wrestler, against the cage, without knowing the back door maneuver from DHG. The result was him being tapped with a Darce.
So, in conclusion, let your opponent dictate on whether you play the DHG (Usually when they pass high) before trying to do this in competition.
5/30/2010 12:06pm, #17
But there's no reason why you can't initiate from half guard and enter DHG. I mean if you keep trying to elevator your opponent and just can't make the space to do it, well then, yes of course move on to something else, but that pretty much goes for everything in BJJ. Obsession with one technique or position only blinds you from the rest of your game, but that goes without saying.
5/30/2010 1:07pm, #18
- Join Date
- Nov 2005
- Washington State
Movement is key with all things, especially on the bottom. If you are not moving between techniques (transitions, submissions, reversals, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah) then you will find yourself screwed. If you are just trying DHG and the various sweeps then the person on top of you can just spend all their time shutting your DHG down since they know you are not going for anything else. Of course, as mentioned, that can be said for any grappling position.
As for me, I'm both agree and disagree with letting my opponent dictate the use of DHG or any other position. Sometimes (going by that whole yielding thing) your opponents actions may very well dictate what you do next. However, I prefer to dictate my opponent's actions to them.
5/30/2010 3:11pm, #19
I'm not saying you can't bait or set up the maneuver but when you force the DHG it'll be harder to obtain. Right now DHG is the flavor of the month. Eventually, like every other game, people will find and exploit the holes. Then people will give up on it. Usually too soon. The lockdown game is the best example of this. I've playing that game well before it was known as the lockdown, so right now I'm ahead of the curve. Same as the rubber guard. Most learn a few tricks and beat their partners and gain some success but in the long run they get themselves into more trouble than it's worth because they didn't take the, roughly, two years it would take to be able to really understand the game.
5/30/2010 8:06pm, #20
My advice to those who are having difficulties with DHG is to look broadly, see how different people play the position (ie Saulo has a short section on it in JJU, of course the Glover DVD set, etc.). If need be, put it on the back burner, because like with most things in BJJ, other techniques and positions can sometimes boost your understanding of whatever you are working on currently. I put DHG on hold for a little bit while I was being taught the 93 guard and sharpening up my X-Guard, so that when I moved to GB Long Island and saw how they played DHG, that perspective plus my work on the other positions gave me new insights into how to apply the DHG.
Omega's right, anything you work on in BJJ should never be a one-shot-lets-try-it-and-if-it-works-great kind of deal, it's always a work in progress.