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  1. JimDesu is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2010 2:25am

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Noob taijiquan fajin question

    I was looking around for a taijiquan school to augment some other stuff I've done since my rooting is so pathetically heavy and static that the minute someone stops punching and starts pushing or pulling I get put on my butt. But I don't know anything about the various schools out there, so I looked around at various videos and ended up watching a bunch that demonstrated taijiquan's use of fajin... . None of the videos display anything that looks like the fajin that I've seen-- all the videos show fast whip like motions that accelerate on the way to the target then dump force into the target by decelerating, just like a really fancy version of every western boxing punch I've ever thrown; none of them show a placement of hand or fist against the target followed by dumping force into the target by accelerating into it like a piston expanding.

    So the $64k noobie question is: does taijiquan use fajin as I'm describing it, or is that more of a xingyiquan thing instead?
  2. lcx8620 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2010 5:21am

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Taichi fajin is not just like piston expanding, but like waving inside, all the joints work together within one movement. It is like waving, unstopped, and easy to change direction by turning whichever joint.
    But yes, not many master knows how to generate Taichi Fajin.
  3. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/27/2010 2:43pm

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     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'd have to see links to the videos you're describing. (Most fajin vids I've seen don't even involve a target, but certainly involve acceleration.) At any rate, fajin is just the issuing of energy in a fairly explosive way, so it needn't be one thing.

    Also, your rooting problem is more important than fajin.
  4. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/27/2010 2:51pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by lcx8620 View Post
    Taichi fajin is not just like piston expanding, but like waving inside, all the joints work together within one movement. It is like waving, unstopped, and easy to change direction by turning whichever joint.
    But yes, not many master knows how to generate Taichi Fajin.
    No.

    Don't start with different Fajin and specific styles of Fajin. That's claptrap selling point BS. Fajin is Fajin. How you apply or direct fajin, through a specific style, is the only thing that may be different.

    None of the videos display anything that looks like the fajin that I've seen-- all the videos show fast whip like motions that accelerate on the way to the target then dump force into the target by decelerating, just like a really fancy version of every western boxing punch I've ever thrown; none of them show a placement of hand or fist against the target followed by dumping force into the target by accelerating into it like a piston expanding.
    Oh and who is fooling you into thinking this is wrong and not fajin?

    Oh and Rivington only touched the surface, your rooting probably has nothing to so with fajin. There can be so many factors involved, we can't tell you over the internet. It could be anything form poor structure to what I call cheating.
  5. JimDesu is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2010 3:20pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My problems are way beyond the scope of fixing on a discussion board -- that would degenerate into insanity at Ludicrous Speed. I was just curious because what I've seen looked so completely unlike the things online.

    Thanks.
  6. lcx8620 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2010 4:03pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    No.

    Don't start with different Fajin and specific styles of Fajin. That's claptrap selling point BS. Fajin is Fajin. How you apply or direct fajin, through a specific style, is the only thing that may be different.

    Oh and who is fooling you into thinking this is wrong and not fajin?

    Oh and Rivington only touched the surface, your rooting probably has nothing to so with fajin. There can be so many factors involved, we can't tell you over the internet. It could be anything form poor structure to what I call cheating.
    Maybe I should quote a sentence from Zhang Sanfeng's 'Taichi Quan Theory':'长拳者,如长江大海滔滔不绝也!When you practice Taichi quan, it should be like great river and huge sea waves after waves! 一举动周身俱要轻灵,尤须贯串。 When you generate any movement, the movement should be natural and relaxing, especially have to be connected firmly. 无使有缺陷处,无使有凸凹处,无使有断续处。其根在脚,发于腿,主宰于腰,形于手指,由脚而腿而腰,总须完 整一气。Do not make your body and movement any weakness, do not make it any concave convex, do not make it any breaking. The fajin root in feet, generating from legs, controlling by waist, forming in fingers, which is from feet to legs than to waist, have to be in a complete system.
  7. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/27/2010 4:09pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by lcx8620 View Post
    Maybe I should quote a sentence from Zhang Sanfeng's 'Taichi Quan Theory':'长拳者,如长江大海滔滔不绝也!When you practice Taichi quan, it should be like great river and huge sea waves after waves! 一举动周身俱要轻灵,尤须贯串。 When you generate any movement, the movement should be natural and relaxing, especially have to be connected firmly. 无使有缺陷处,无使有凸凹处,无使有断续处。其根在脚,发于腿,主宰于腰,形于手指,由脚而腿而腰,总须完 整一气。Do not make your body and movement any weakness, do not make it any concave convex, do not make it any breaking. The fajin root in feet, generating from legs, controlling by waist, forming in fingers, which is from feet to legs than to waist, have to be in a complete system.
    ...Aaaaaah yes, the obligatory esoteric "this could mean anything" and may not even be talking about Fajin. Oh and poor misdirection attempt.
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/27/2010 4:11pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by JimDesu View Post
    My problems are way beyond the scope of fixing on a discussion board -- that would degenerate into insanity at Ludicrous Speed. I was just curious because what I've seen looked so completely unlike the things online.

    Thanks.
    Okay, how about you go to youtube and show us what you think is Fajin and not Fajin. we can go from there. Please ignore the soon to be excised rambler at this point.
  9. lcx8620 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2010 4:23pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    ...Aaaaaah yes, the obligatory esoteric "this could mean anything" and may not even be talking about Fajin. Oh and poor misdirection attempt.
    But why are you so sure about your insistence? Which style of Taichi did you learn? We are discussing something, CMA is the free land, styles may be different but we share the spirit. Why are you saying no so quickly but not instead of saying I think or in my opinion?
  10. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/27/2010 5:51pm

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     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Two fajin videos:

    YouTube- Chen Xiaowang -fajin

    YouTube- Chen taiji quan fajin by Chenyu ™ˆ氏太ž‹

    I think it's pretty clear that the performers are accelerating, but at the very end of the move when most of the energy has been expended there's a bit of a slow down, likely because there is no actual target to make contact with.

    That's why I'd asked to see the vids the OP had mentioned.

    There's this one, which seems to be more like what he wants to see:

    YouTube- Fajin (Fajing) Exercises of The Pre-Heaven Power Method

    And the targets might be cooperating a bit much, at least in some of the chucking. They certainly aren't trying to sink into the thrusts anyway. And when he does the little push-hands bit with the students first, he takes a big step into their horses, which is fine of course but it's a bit of a foolish demo that way as the students have to ignore feeling or seeing the step and reacting (by taking a step of their own back or whatnot) at the very least.

    At any rate, you can fajin a dude who is right on top of you and you can fajin a dude who is at the end of the length of your arm or elbow or knee or shoulder or hip or staff of what have you. It's all good. Just breathe correctly.
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