Noob taijiquan fajin question

**JimDesu** · Posted On: 5/27/2010 11:51pm

I wish I could remember the google path that had led me to the videos that I was thinking of when I got my brilliant "Hey, the guys on Bullshido would know!" inspiration, but now I'm just stumbling over the same dozen videos again. I'm sorry that "um, there was a guy in black with a blue background beating up his students, and another with a guy in red on a stage with everyone clapping" aren't exactly useful.

Anyway, the consensus seems to be that the answer is somewhere between "no" and "wft are you talking about", which in combination are good enough for this noob. Thanks.

**Diesel_tke** · Posted On: 5/28/2010 9:23am

Well, I think one of the problems is that some people will describe Fajin in a mystical way. Where you can transport your Chi into another person with such force that the Chi alone will knock them over. Then you have some people describing it the same as muscle conectivity that boxers use. Being able to conect your heel to the ground (root) and then use that to propel your force from the cround into your legs, hips, then into your arms. Ending with power in a punch, push or whatever.

But as a beginer, Fajin is irrelivant. You need to practice the basics of rooting and moving. Fajin will come later. Of the Tai Chi I have done, Chen style was the best for Fajin. However, in your opening post, you talked about being rooted and not unbalanced. Which you will get from proper push hands practice. For that you need to find a good school. And talk to teacher more, watch youtube less.

**JimDesu** · Posted On: 5/28/2010 11:29am

The folks I talked to, a closed xingyiquan school in Texas, were definitely of the physical model of things. In general, though, thank you for the advice -- I'd already decided that I should start studying taiji for exactly that reason (the video-watching was part of a junket to try to figure out which of the plethora of styles to pursue): I'll dig into Chen style more.

Thanks :)

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 5/29/2010 3:30am

Originally Posted by JimDesu

The folks I talked to, a closed xingyiquan school in Texas, were definitely of the physical model of things. In general, though, thank you for the advice -- I'd already decided that I should start studying taiji for exactly that reason (the video-watching was part of a junket to try to figure out which of the plethora of styles to pursue): I'll dig into Chen style more.

Thanks :)

Videos aren't going to help. Depending on what you want, they need to spar heavily and hopefully compete.

Also avoid any school that tries to say their fajing is better than boxing.

**eyebeams** · Posted On: 5/30/2010 1:09am

From what I've been taught, the general characteristics of fajin include:

1) Rapid acceleration within the natural range of motion. The functional movement doesn't yank you into a dynamic stretch, but you do not "brake" early, weakening the movement.

2) Moving agonist groups in a coordinated fashion, particularly in the waist. My personal challenge here is "leaving stuff behind" -- I tend to let the arms lag a bit when I'm pushing off the feet.

3) Relaxation of antagonist muscle groups beyond what is required for proper alignment. This creates the proprioceptive illusion that fajin isn't muscular -- it always involves muscle action, but we tend to feel stronger when we flex *against* what we're doing even though this creates a braking action.

You need to brake strongly in the air to avoid joint stress, but you don't need to on a heavy bag or a person. *Maybe* you might create a kind of rigidity at the end in specific applications of jin such as when you're shaking off a simple grip.

4) Returning to a stable standing posture as a natural consequence of the movement.

That's how I remember/interpret my time in xingyi and taijiquan, anyway. I could be wrong and don't claim to be an expert, but at least some of this stuff is specific. enough for others to chew on.

**Permalost** · Posted On: 5/31/2010 12:36am

Originally Posted by eyebeams

From what I've been taught, the general characteristics of fajin include:

1) Rapid acceleration within the natural range of motion. The functional movement doesn't yank you into a dynamic stretch, but you do not "brake" early, weakening the movement.

In choy li fut, strikes tend to be extended as far as possible, which I found to actually diminish the practicality of them. When I started learning Okinawan karate, turning the body without overextending was something I had to relearn, and I feel like I'm a better martial artist because of it.