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  1. HereBeADragon is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2010 5:49pm


     Style: Limalama, Judo & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    "You are not allowed to carry a firearm here because god forbid you might hurt the criminal and violate his rights! Feel free to molest children, rob and shoot etc because lord knows you had a tough life and deserve the sympathy of out of touch rich ex hippies that live in Marin.... "

    Here is the argument that I took issue with. Once again Tripp I had no issue with your argument and I am not making light of the dangers of the world. I am aware of the dangers out there and have seen them first hand.

    You painted a better argument for more relaxed gun control laws and I for the most part agree with your argument. I called his argument the boogieman argument because he is not dealing with the reality of the situation, but with a vague notion of bad guys that he sees as protected while he is left vulnerable to them because he cannot carry his gun around with him. Read his statement again and tell me if it is one that you feel furthers or hinders the argument for more relaxed gun control laws? His argument or at least how he framed it is IMHO BS. You are saying, if I have not misunderstood you, that as an American citizen you have a constitutional right to own and carry firearms and have the right to defend yourself with said firearms. That is a valid argument and I agree with it.
  2. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2010 6:06pm

    Join us... or die
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by HereBeADragon View Post
    Your right your argument is not just about shooting pedophiles that live near you. Evidently your desire to carry a gun is so you can shoot any criminal you can find. Your the reason there are such stringent laws. Hyperbole or not if your best argument against gun control laws is that they stop you from being able to shoot anyone you want well your kinda defeating your own point.



    I'm not entirely clear what point you are trying to make Tripp. Your referring to gun ownership while I was discussing the right to carry a concealed firearm. I'm not personally against owning or carrying guns, I own a few myself. The law however is the law and if someone wants it to change than as I said that change is up to the voters.
    ????

    Please call me anything you want but do not I repeat DO NOT interpret what you think I am saying.

    Wht the **** are you talking about? My point has to do with the swing in a social group where the victim is looked upon as a secondary priority.... that is my point. My point is that in addition to many of the fine arguments that people like M Tripp have advanced, the idea that one should be penalized for defending oneself is itself abherant if taken to its extreme.
    This thread never was a high quality conversation - My friend vern Gilbert on the William Acquier thread.

    The fight in question having started over who owns which piece of rubble. Nicko1;2233174 On the Acquier Kim Fiasco slash thread.
  3. HereBeADragon is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2010 6:11pm


     Style: Limalama, Judo & BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsimon3387 View Post
    ????

    Please call me anything you want but do not I repeat DO NOT interpret what you think I am saying.

    Wht the **** are you talking about? My point has to do with the swing in a social group where the victim is looked upon as a secondary priority.... that is my point. My point is that in addition to many of the fine arguments that people like M Tripp have advanced, the idea that one should be penalized for defending oneself is itself abherant if taken to its extreme.
    and that is a much better way of making your point.
  4. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2010 6:11pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post
    <<<Your right your argument is not just about shooting pedophiles that live near you. Evidently your desire to carry a gun is so you can shoot any criminal you can find. Your the reason there are such stringent laws. Hyperbole or not if your best argument against gun control laws is that they stop you from being able to shoot anyone you want well your kinda defeating your own point.>>>

    Not the point he made. The "right" is the right to protect yourself against the goblins of the world. The "stringent laws" are there because of people who foolishly believe that "gun control" rather than "criminal control" is the better idea. See the books I suggested.

    <<<I'm not entirely clear what point you are trying to make Tripp. Your referring to gun ownership while I was discussing the right to carry a concealed firearm. I'm not personally against owning or carrying guns, I own a few myself. The law however is the law and if someone wants it to change than as I said that change is up to the voters.>>>

    No, I am discussing both. The right to self-defense extends beyond your home. The right to be safe and secure is the reason for the second amendment. Not only do I have no problem with law abiding citizens carrying concealed firearms, I would REFUSE to live anywhere that they could not. Simply because the most dangerous places in the US, are the places that have the strictest "gun control" laws.


    And the absolute best evidence of this is what criminals profess when asked about gun control. I.E. Criminals love gun control it is a free lfe insuance policy.
    This thread never was a high quality conversation - My friend vern Gilbert on the William Acquier thread.

    The fight in question having started over who owns which piece of rubble. Nicko1;2233174 On the Acquier Kim Fiasco slash thread.
  5. Carpe Noctem is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/29/2010 9:23pm


     Style: BJJ, MACP (hiatus)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nefron View Post
    You should try having a civil war. After that no household is left without at least an AK and a few boxes of ammo. We had guys hiding APCs in barns like 10 years after the war.
    A bit off-topic Nefron, but I was in your country on "official business" in the mid/late 90's. Such a beautiful country, I just have no words for something like that happening.

    I can also vouch for everyone and their grandma having an AK. Freakin' EVERYWHERE.
  6. Dsimon3387 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/29/2010 9:25pm

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    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I just have to say; I started out as a sprout being for gun control. Two seminal events occured. At 13 studying the martial arts I realized that a total ignorance on my part regarding weapons would not save me from them. At this time I was quite the karateka.... we would fight til we were bloody and were the scurge of East Baltimore.... some dojos would piss in their pants at the sound of our encroachment... yet there was that liiiiiiiiitle voice you know the one you tell to "leave you alone".... Kierkgaard's conscience.

    Then bouncing at night I would laugh at that little voice and kick it out of my head like a drunken Disco guido..... well one night the boys came. Specifically they came to put a hit out on our owner and when it went down some people got shot and knifed, the back alley looked like a slaughtehouse truth be told. Well the next day I went to philly in search of Ronald Duncan and started a new chapter in my life as a martial artist. I found Richard Wigginton.

    I could at that point live as an intellectual schiso: Namely I could practice at the range with the blades and still think somehow that maybe I was better off if most people did not carry... after all people are stupid right?

    Does anyone remember James Bradey? Well there is an old expression in Washington... least there should be: "If you want to die for a worthy cause make sure your death is sensational and that a lobbyist is there to see it." I was a bright boy if not a bit confused and I remember thinking "what the **** does the secretary of State being a vegetable have to do with criminals and guns"? I mean what? first of all if those guns were trained on the lobbyists we should be so lucky right but seriously I began to realize the stupidity that people projected onto the possabilities that occur with weapons... Bradey shot by a criminal with an illegal gun had what to do with an armed citizenry?

    Then I started to, as a martial artist does at some point, think like an evil bastard... since we all know that we practice for that guy named "evil bastard" you know the one who looks like a biker, is ruthless, is a bully and who stinks like Le Bell's Herring and Limberger sandwich. Well it turns out that the real evil bastard is a guy who does not want to challenge in a game of skill but is looking for a mark. This guy loved the idea of intimidation and would love to cold cock grandma for a nickel. It turns out that this guy is trained to look at the weakest individuals, you know the people who should carry a weapon? The sad truth is that nobody picks on me.... that guy named "evil bastard" turned out not to be so bad after all, because criminals go after those they percieve will not figh back... period. It is why a dog issuch a great deterrent... the bad guy does not want to shoot your dog and he knows the dog will not stop with the threat.

    Something to think about folks! :qgaraduat
    This thread never was a high quality conversation - My friend vern Gilbert on the William Acquier thread.

    The fight in question having started over who owns which piece of rubble. Nicko1;2233174 On the Acquier Kim Fiasco slash thread.
  7. Lebell is offline
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    Just waiting for the paperboy.

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    Posted On:
    5/30/2010 3:21am

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Nefron View Post
    You should try having a civil war. After that no household is left without at least an AK and a few boxes of ammo. We had guys hiding APCs in barns like 10 years after the war.
    An entire Armoured personel carrier in a barn?
    wow..just wow...
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