5/29/2010 2:23pm, #41
Funny story, I was actually vehemently opposed to all gun control laws until I lived in Pennsylvania for six years. The people who legally obtained guns and concealed carry permits were invariably the kind of dumbasses I believed were non-existent negative stereotypes perpetrated by those who were afraid of guns and made me think twice about whether or not the rules should be stricter.
Funny story, I had a brief argument with one gentleman who was a friend of a friend where I think I made him feel a little bit unmanly. The next time I saw him at a bar he flashed his legally obtained piece at me in a semi-subtle way to let me and everyone else know he had it. Then he proceeded to get blasted drunk and have his pistol fall out of his jeans as he was hitting on a girl, only to be quickly recovered by his more sober friend.
I was mugged in that same city at a different time and I felt like I was in much more physical danger by the law abiding citizen utilizing his second amendment rights.
5/29/2010 2:23pm, #42
<<<Just for clairty sake what context am I twisting?>>>
The context that one can be quite sane and see the need to carry a firearm.
<<<I've not said anything against your right to carry a firearm if you wish to do so as long as they are properly trained in its use and in its safe handling. Again because you do not seem to be getting this point.>>>
I do get it, but this is not your point.
<<<My issue is using the boogieman argument as justification for carrying one. Also what reality am I ignoring?>>>
By attempting to diminish real world violence to a childish "boogieman," that would be the first part.
<<<You seem to have a pretty good understanding of my past and personal experiences dont you?>>>
Phui, I have only spoken to MY experience and to YOUR attempt to diminish them, for example:
<<<Or is it just that Tripp has seen and done it all and thus knows the evils of the world better than everyone else?>>>
This is a fairly good example of same.
<<<I have no intention or desire to deminish or besmirch your past or experience>>>
Of course you do, and you just did.
<<<but do not presume on mine either.>>>
I have done no such thing, you are projecting.
<<<I know all to well about the "goblins of the world" and I recognize the dangers they present.>>.
And yet you dismiss it as a "boogieman" reason? Sorry, but I don't see how you can have it both ways.
<<<I really am not opposed to your opinion Tripp we are more or less on the same page with the issue but for whatever reason you seem determined to fight me on it.>>>
I intend to fight what you are attempting to pass as reason. I will do it all the more so if you continue to think insult moves your position forward.
I do not see how we are on the same page at all. I would not dismiss a persons reasonable understanding of the need to have the means to repel a violent personal attack as a childish "boogieman." If you think a person who arms themselves are doing so due to a childish fear than we are not in the same book, let alone page."Out of every hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back." -- Hericletus, circa 500 BC
5/29/2010 2:26pm, #43
When you check into how many people with CCW's have them revoked because of situations you just related, you find the numbers to be VERY low indeed. However, they do get revoked for just such a reason. However, if they all were the cowboys as they get painted as, every night would be the OK Corral now wouldn't it?"Out of every hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back." -- Hericletus, circa 500 BC
5/29/2010 2:30pm, #44
5/29/2010 2:42pm, #45
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
This is incorrect. Your story was not of a "law abiding" person. In nearly all "shall carry" states, it is illegal to carry your firearm into any estabilshment that serves alcohol and you will get it revoked if you are caught doing that. He was carrying his firearm illegally whether or not he had a permit. Alcohol and firearms are a legal no no almost everywhere. How did you know he legally had a carry permit? Did you look him up in a database or did a friend of a friend of a friend tell you he had one?
Did the guy who mugged you take the time to flash out his CCW and explain that he wanted to legally carry a gun up to the point that he mugged you after which he is in illegal possesion of a firearm?
Why do people keep chasing the senario whereby some sociopath thinks "I would really like to rape, kill a bitch, and go on a shooting spree, but numerous gun laws prohibit me. I guess my homicidal tendencies will forever remain unfullfilled."
5/29/2010 2:42pm, #46
The point of the story is that there are real world reasons for people to have a bad feeling in their stomach about folks legally bringing guns to public places. In situations like the one I described, the smartest thing to do is leave that place knowing full well that if no one gets killed for a stupid reason on that night, odds are they will eventually.
Again, not saying it's a valid argument for mass strictures on gun control laws. Instead, I'm using it as an example for why reasonable people can be made uneasy by things as they are, now.
5/29/2010 2:53pm, #47
As for the mugger, his weapon may have been legal or illegal. No idea. But as a man with a goal there was a level of reason in our interaction absent from "man who will end up shooting someone out of either bruised pride or sheer accident."
I think you're reading more argument than I'm making. My commentary was more tangential, saying that "cowboys," as Coach Tripp called them are a consequence of easily available legal firearms and that in situations where a paranoid or otherwise in need of masculinity reinforcement gentleman starts carrying around a weapon I'm more frightened of them than the criminals.
Isolated enough of a problem that it wouldn't warrant massive changes to the law. But it's something in the periphery that goes unconsidered in these arguments and leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
5/29/2010 3:03pm, #48
i generally think that gun control as it exists in NYC is a bad thing, but after reading this thread i am glad that nogroinnokrav can't get a handgun for a few years.
not all 18 year old kids are morons, but enough of them are that i think 21 is pretty reasonable."Face punches are an essential character building part of a martial art. You don't truly love your children unless you allow them to get punched in the face." - chi-conspiricy
"When I was a little boy, I had a sailor suit, but it didn't mean I was in the Navy." - Mtripp on the subject of a 5 year old karate black belt
"Without actual qualifications to be a Zen teacher, your instructor is just another roundeye raping Asian culture for a buck." - Errant108
"Seriously, who gives a **** what you or Errant think? You're Asian males, everyone just ignores you, unless you're in a krotty movie." - new2bjj
5/29/2010 3:10pm, #49
- Join Date
- Jan 2006
For example I own 16 firearms, however; I've never commited a violent crime or been charged with or convicted of a serious offense. Therefore I can legally own firearms and use them for lawful purposes. If I use one of guns to rob a bank or murder someone I can no longer legally possess my collection and I will not be able to buy any additional guns from legal sources meaning I can't walk into a gun dealership and buy one since I would be unable to pass a background check.
5/29/2010 3:11pm, #50
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
You should try having a civil war. After that no household is left without at least an AK and a few boxes of ammo. We had guys hiding APCs in barns like 10 years after the war.