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  1. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/26/2010 12:39pm

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     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    “Schools where men are taught to defend themselves" (1903)

    A re-printed article from the New York Tribune (1903) at Bartitsu.org:

    http://www.bartitsu.org/index.php/20...treet-rowdies/



    In the city of London the crime of the highwayman and burglar has increased to such an extent that many schools have sprung up in the great English metropolis where one may learn the art of stick defence. These schools have proved popular, and many of the professional fencing and boxing masters have included courses in which the pupil is taught to handle the stick. The instruction is simple, and contrasts in a striking degree with the complicated science of fencing. Neither is it anything like the old art of handling the singlestick, where two men armed with sticks parry with each other for an opening to administer a blow.

    Stick defence differs from all these manly exercises in this essential — it is not a pastime between sportsmen; it is a quick and safe method of knocking out a thug.
  2. creativo is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/26/2010 4:31pm


     Style: Judofitness

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Very interesting.

    I can't comment on stick techniques; but it's a great cultural insight from 100 years ago.

    Had the ethnic profiling of the "thugs" any basis, or is it just the writing style of those times? Italian and Spaniards will use knives, Germans will use stick because they studied the broadsword (!!!)...

    Also, kneeing the head is an evergreen apparently.

    "United States naval wrestling", I suppose it's judo?
  3. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/26/2010 4:45pm

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     Style: Bartitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Had the ethnic profiling of the "thugs" any basis, or is it just the writing style of those times?
    Both, really, though the author of this article is an extreme example of the c1900 tendency toward ethic generalizations.

    "United States naval wrestling", I suppose it's judo?
    Yep. Barton-Wright introduced Japanese unarmed combat to England in 1898 and by 1902 Yoshiaki Yamashita (Kodokan 6th dan) was teaching in the US, including at the Naval Academy. His most famous private student was none other than President Theodore Roosevelt.
  4. lklawson is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2010 7:51am


     Style: Bowie

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by creativo View Post
    Had the ethnic profiling of the "thugs" any basis, or is it just the writing style of those times?
    As DdlR says, both.

    The racism and "ethnic profiling" was not only rampant but, essentially, just a part of every day life. You can see it in much of the writing in the 19th C. and early 20th. It was simply assumed that different "races" (which includes ethnicity) had specific proclivities that were general to the entire group.

    A good example of this is The Sword Prince: The Romantic Life of Colonel Monstery, American Champion-at-Arms. In it the hero (as he is specifically referred to many times) relates that:
    • "negros" are violent, stupid, and lazy
    • the descendants of Moorish ancestry in Spain are shifty, conniving, backstabbing liars
    • non-Moorish Spaniards are hot-blooded, aggressive, and prone to acting without considering the consequences
    • Jews are stand-offish greedy bankers
    • Danes have a innate drive to the arts of war which makes them difficult to live (safely) with
    • French are snooty, self-centered, jingoists


    However, as part of this general culture of racism, various ethnicities often created a feedback loop. By generally congregating together in ethnic groups (for safety, emotional and cultural "comfort," and as a response to prejudice from other ethnicities), cultural/ethnic norms were amplified. For instance, Spain does have a knife-fighting tradition, and (for many reasons) it made sense for Spaniards (and Spanish diaspora) to continue this tradition, even amplifying its importance as a cultural artifact.

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
  5. BaronVonDingDong is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/27/2010 8:23am


     Style: Jerry-Bashing

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    Quote Originally Posted by lklawson View Post
    • "negros" are violent, stupid, and lazy
    • the descendants of Moorish ancestry in Spain are shifty, conniving, backstabbing liars
    • non-Moorish Spaniards are hot-blooded, aggressive, and prone to acting without considering the consequences
    • Jews are stand-offish greedy bankers
    • Danes have a innate drive to the arts of war which makes them difficult to live (safely) with
    • French are snooty, self-centered, jingoists


    See also: Shakespeare, "Titus Andronicus"; "Othello"; "The Merchant of Venice"; "Henry V"; "Henry VI pt. 1"; "King John", "Hamlet," etc.

    Most (if not all) of these stereotypes are inscribed in Anglophone culture around the time that nation states come to be formed in the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries. It's a means of differentiating self from other, a way to make sense of increased colonial encounters, and a humanist emulation of imperial Roman ideas of civilization, where civility is built upon a tenuous foundation that can be protected only by continual struggle against the forces of barbarism, perpetually knocking at the gates.

    On a slightly different note, I enjoyed Mike Dash's "Satan's Circus", a piece of non-fiction that deals with New York City street culture in the first decade of the C20th.

    Amazon.com: Satan's Circus: Murder, Vice, Police Corruption, and New York's Trial of the Century (9781400054725): Mike Dash: Books
  6. Coach Josh is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/27/2010 9:43am

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     Gladiators Academy Lafayette, LA Style: Judo, MMA, White Trash JJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I am going to preach to the choir.

    Throughout history many men have professed the need to learn martial arts/self defense techniques in some fashion. Most often they were treated with a some respect but keep at arms length for being a kook.

    Society has always though of themselves as being above such trivial nonsense as having to learn fighting techniques. Many people would just rather run on their treadmills and do pilates than trouble themselves with such a frivolous endeavor. They have put faith in the police and other people being of solid character.

    While for the most part society is right in that people want to be of good character there is always the ones that are not. Your chances of being a victim is roughly 1 in 200 this seems like it would be unlikely for you to be a victim. Your chance of being struck by lightning is 1 in 500000 and 1 in 70 of dieing in a car accident. So what do we do? We stay away from bad areas of town, come in out of the rain and wear a seat belt.

    These things can decrease the chance of a bad thing happening but the chance of it happening is always there. Self defense is just another added measure that will decrease your chance of being a victim. It will not decrease your chance of being attacked.

    When the RSBD crowd talks they use scare tactics this turns people off and perpetuates the idea of all MA being a bunch of kooks. More and more people need to be educated on the benefits of training and learning how to defend themselves. Unfortunately even with historical evidence such as this people continue to ignore the need for self preservation. Just look at the way the main stream attacks and demeans the people who carry guns for protection.

    The right to self preservation has almost become a crime in itself. If I had the solution I would tell everyone(not that anyone would listen). All I can say is that when you talk to people about this kind of stuff try to be as intelligent as possible. Speak of the benefits of training and the satisfaction you feel in learning a new technique or pushing yourself past an obstacle or threshold in your training.

    When asked could you beat this person or that one respond with something more positive. "I may not be able to beat that person up but I can defend myself long enough to get away or slow them down so that I may escape."
    Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.
  7. gregaquaman is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/27/2010 10:38am

    Join us... or die
     Style: mma /boxing/muai thai

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I train cos I get joy from it?
    gotcha
  8. lklawson is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/27/2010 11:39am


     Style: Bowie

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    Quote Originally Posted by gregaquaman View Post
    I train cos I get joy from it?
    "So you actually enjoy hurting people?!?! BARBARIAN!" ;)

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
  9. Permalost is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/27/2010 1:36pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In Cold Steel by John Styers, there are more references to ethnic profiling of fighting styles:
    Many styles of knife fighting evolved from the manner in which the blade was used industrially. This is particularly true of the chopper, or jungle-knife type, such as the Philippine bolo or the Malayan parang. These people have a natural sense of timing, so very important in fighting with blades. These fighters wield their blades in diagonal downward swings. Thrusting is also resorted to, but only as a secondary attack.



    The techniques of the Latins are very different in origin. Highly tempermental of nature, their usual intent was not to kill, but to slash their opponents enough to end the dispute. The fact that they were predominantly fishermen, all having to work together, probably accounted for the emphasis on the less deadly areas. Vital targets were also well known, however. All carried small, readily accessible knives which were used for cleaning fish. As far as technique is concerned, few Latins realize that, with slight variations, they all use principles of ancient sword-and-cloak play: the left arm protected by two turns of the cloak for parrying, left foot forward, the knife in the right hand, thumb flat on the blade.



    The Turks and Arabs use their curved knife, the jambiya, in very much the same manner as their forefathers wielded the famed scimitar - that is, slicing at large muscle areas, particularly the abdomen. To disembowel is most satisfactory.


    The Russians, Germans and Poles are not quite so delicate with their blades. Their knives all variations of the Caucasian kindjai, are broad, double-edged, needle-pointed, dagger-like affairs. Their design and the way they are used might reflect the temperment of the people who use them - not easily aroused, but when they are, watch out! Their dueling techniques are simple. They merely get inside the opponent's guard and drive the blade down into his chest or back. This is done with a flying leap and downward stabbing motion.

    from http://gutterfighting.org/StyersBowie.html
  10. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/27/2010 9:51pm

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     Style: Bartitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    There was a similar list in a book or article by William Bankier, a.k.a. "Apollo the Scottish Hercules" - the music hall strongman who managed Yukio Tani's pro-wrestling career after Tani broke with Barton-Wright. I can't recall the details but it was basically a list of ethnic "types" followed by what Bankier considered to be their characteristic weapons/fighting tactics.

    The fact that this sort of profiling was so often just taken for granted is one of the most striking difference between pre-WW1 and post-1960s literature.
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