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  1. #11
    M1K3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lcx8620 View Post
    Your opionion is very good. That is just the point, the Zhan zhuan training deal with tendon is the relaxing motion. The muscle training could also make the tendon bigger, but only when it is nervous, it is not what we call bloat. The reason why we have to bloat tendon in the relaxing way, it is because it could be ready for any situation to block and strike without intension. If you could touch the bloating tendon, you could feel the difference, it is relaxed but full of reflexive power.
    Tendon: A tendon (or sinew) is a tough band of fibrous connective tissue that usually connects muscle to bone[1] and is capable of withstanding tension. Tendons are similar to ligaments and fascia as they are all made of collagen except that ligaments join one bone to another bone, and fascia connect muscles to other muscles. Tendons and muscles work together and can only exert a pulling force. From WIKI

    Tendons don't do any work. They connect things together. Muscles do work. Muscles use tendons. What you are describing is NOT the way things work.
    Last edited by M1K3; 5/27/2010 9:06am at . Reason: Needed to add NOT. Boy does that change the meaning of the sentence when you forget it.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by M1K3 View Post
    Tendon: A tendon (or sinew) is a tough band of fibrous connective tissue that usually connects muscle to bone[1] and is capable of withstanding tension. Tendons are similar to ligaments and fascia as they are all made of collagen except that ligaments join one bone to another bone, and fascia connect muscles to other muscles. Tendons and muscles work together and can only exert a pulling force. From WIKI

    Tendons don't do any work. They connect things together. Muscles do work. Muscles use tendons. What you are describing is NOT the way things work.
    That explaination is just like if you have headache why acupuncture on bottom of feet called Yongquan. The direct way to do things may be not the best way. The straight line between two points is shortest, but as we know the earth is a ball.
    The muscle generates the movement and power but limit the power, if you pay too much attention on muscle, the muscle will be nervous, the power will be wasted in the internal usage of nervous. That is why all the martial arts have to be relaxing. The function of relaxing is make yourself not focus on part of body, but the bring the whole muscle and bone system into use. Tendon as you mentioned 'usually connects muscle to bone[1] and is capable of withstanding tension', it is the medium to communicate with muscle and bone and because it could withstanding tension, it could make sure the blocking and striking power hard to be interrupted by against force, it is called 'Peng Jin' or 'Jian jia' in CMA. The reason why we concern about tendon but not muscle is because tendon is medium and it would contribute a lot to the whole system.

  3. #13
    M1K3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lcx8620 View Post
    That explaination is just like if you have headache why acupuncture on bottom of feet called Yongquan. The direct way to do things may be not the best way. The straight line between two points is shortest, but as we know the earth is a ball.
    The muscle generates the movement and power but limit the power, if you pay too much attention on muscle, the muscle will be nervous, the power will be wasted in the internal usage of nervous. That is why all the martial arts have to be relaxing. The function of relaxing is make yourself not focus on part of body, but the bring the whole muscle and bone system into use. Tendon as you mentioned 'usually connects muscle to bone[1] and is capable of withstanding tension', it is the medium to communicate with muscle and bone and because it could withstanding tension, it could make sure the blocking and striking power hard to be interrupted by against force, it is called 'Peng Jin' or 'Jian jia' in CMA. The reason why we concern about tendon but not muscle is because tendon is medium and it would contribute a lot to the whole system.
    No, simply no. Muscles will not be nervous and tendons are not the medium to communicate with the muscles. Nerves tell you muscles what to do, muscles provide the power and tendons the leverage.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by M1K3 View Post
    No, simply no. Muscles will not be nervous and tendons are not the medium to communicate with the muscles. Nerves tell you muscles what to do, muscles provide the power and tendons the leverage.
    Sorry, the theory passing over generations in CMA, if you use the western medicine theory to deny it, I could not say any thing. If you really practice and feel it, I think maybe you could understand what I meant. Language and theory are tools but also limitation. If you deny my theory, hope my words did not disturb your mind.

  5. #15
    DerAuslander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lcx8620 View Post
    Sorry, the theory passing over generations in CMA, if you use the western medicine theory to deny it, I could not say any thing. If you really practice and feel it, I think maybe you could understand what I meant. Language and theory are tools but also limitation. If you deny my theory, hope my words did not disturb your mind.
    I practice CMA. I am also in college working on my masters in accupuncture.

    What you say makes absolutely no sense.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by DerAuslander108 View Post
    I practice CMA. I am also in college working on my masters in accupuncture.

    What you say makes absolutely no sense.
    If you like, I could quote many theory from ancient times, but somebody may say them not representing anything or maybe I translate in purpose to fit my theory. So thank you my friend, but your advice may not be good enough. I should do some full contact vedio rather than generate some theories...

  7. #17
    M1K3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lcx8620 View Post
    Sorry, the theory passing over generations in CMA, if you use the western medicine theory to deny it, I could not say any thing. If you really practice and feel it, I think maybe you could understand what I meant. Language and theory are tools but also limitation. If you deny my theory, hope my words did not disturb your mind.
    Main Entry: the·o·ry
    Pronunciation: \ˈthē-ə-rē, ˈthir-ē\
    Function: noun
    Inflected Form(s): plural the·o·ries
    Etymology: Late Latin theoria, from Greek theōria, from theōrein
    Date: 1592

    1 : the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another

    In science that is the meaning of theory. The word you are looking for to describe your beliefs is SUPERSTITION.

  8. #18
    DerAuslander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lcx8620 View Post
    If you like, I could quote many theory from ancient times, but somebody may say them not representing anything or maybe I translate in purpose to fit my theory. So thank you my friend, but your advice may not be good enough. I should do some full contact vedio rather than generate some theories...
    It doesn't matter what you quote or translate, or even if you post video.

    It's simple logic.

    If you make statement X, and then make a video showing phenomena Z, you still have to show causality Y.

    There may actually be truth to phenomena Z resulting from your given training methods. Your explanation of why they result as given in statement X is not automatically true, however.

    Further, if statement X is shown to be false via statement W, it does not negate the reality of phenomena Z.

    In other words, I have no doubt that the methods of internal martial arts, Zhan Zhuan, and Jin Gu, being able to produce and generate valid martial power and applications.

    However, I see no need to use theories which do not stand up to modern medical research to justify these results.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by M1K3 View Post
    Main Entry: the·o·ry
    Pronunciation: \ˈthē-ə-rē, ˈthir-ē\
    Function: noun
    Inflected Form(s): plural the·o·ries
    Etymology: Late Latin theoria, from Greek theōria, from theōrein
    Date: 1592

    1 : the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another

    In science that is the meaning of theory. The word you are looking for to describe your beliefs is SUPERSTITION.
    So thank you for teaching me how to promote my things in western world. I noticed that full contact vedio is quite popular. Next time I would save my theory to show some combat skills I think. I think that is the better way to promote my 'superstition'. By the way, not long ago, chigong and acupuncture are what you called superstition from ignorant country, now they are so called 'theory'.

  10. #20
    DerAuslander's Avatar
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    Kigong and accupuncture are still regarded as superstitious in Western culture. I say this even as someone who practices both.

    If either practice are proven to be effective, this does not prove the theory behind them. They may be effective for completely unrelated reasons to the popular theory. Or, portions of the theory may be explained through scientifically observable phenomena that results in a new, more accurate theory.


    Videos of you full-contact fighting do not prove tendon theory. Scientific evidence is what would prove tendon theory.

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