Answers about Zhan Zhuang and Jin gu training.

**lcx8620** · Posted On: 5/24/2010 5:14am

Thank you for your sceptic attitude, you treat with problem serious but with open mind. I think this attitude is nowadays some of Chinese people have to learn with.

It is hard for me to answer questions to all of you in old thread, so I open a new thread, hoping that will help with your understanding.

Firstly, tendon and membrane training is widely existed in different martial arts. In Shao lin, the most famous book about martial arts ‘Yi jin jing’ is all about how to bloat the tendon and membrane. And in Xing Yi, there is complete theory about change tendon, change bone and change marrow in different stage. There is an old saying in Chinese martial arts, 宁长筋长一寸，不练肉厚三分，’Better to enhance the tendon by as little as 1 cm, but do not would like to increase muscle by as thick as 5 inches.’

Secondly, there is some photos could show the bloating effect, in the relaxing status, the tendon and membrane would be raised by energy. You could see from the pictures, first picture is Wan Laishen in his 80s, he is the one of greatest master in China. You could see from his tendon and membrane. The second picture is Yip Man, you could see his neck, the tendon is bloating over. The fourth picture is from martial arts forum in China, the man is bloating his tendon all over but his body is relaxed.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 5/24/2010 9:57am

Really? No.

**nomamao** · Posted On: 5/24/2010 7:01pm

:(

This is what I thought you meant. And, if by some odd power, these guys can make their tendons GROW IN SiZE-- more power to them, but I prefer a little more conventional approach.

**DelPiero1** · Posted On: 5/25/2010 12:38pm

From my understanding Yip Man had some issues with opium late in his life and this side profile picture indicates that he is extremely emaciated. You can actually see the distrurbing detailed profile of his skull. This is exactly the opposite image of so called bloated tendon/muscle.
As for the images describing a relaxed state that is impossible because the muscles of the arms, shoulders, back etc.. are in tension when a human being is holding up a part of their body against gravity.

**Tom Kagan** · Posted On: 5/25/2010 12:59pm

Just when I felt I reached the point where I would no longer weep at the antics of my Kung Fu brethren...

**lcx8620** · Posted On: 5/26/2010 5:46am

Originally Posted by DelPiero1

From my understanding Yip Man had some issues with opium late in his life and this side profile picture indicates that he is extremely emaciated. You can actually see the distrurbing detailed profile of his skull. This is exactly the opposite image of so called bloated tendon/muscle.
As for the images describing a relaxed state that is impossible because the muscles of the arms, shoulders, back etc.. are in tension when a human being is holding up a part of their body against gravity.

About Yip Man, his condtion in his final years is not good. The picture shows his muscle is emaciated. But with tendon, it is different from muscle in Chinese martial arts theory. If you do not keep practicing, the quality of tendon would be reduced, but tendon is long term active, once the tendon practiced, it would keep its activeness even you don ot pratice regularly. If Yip Men do not have the support of those tendon, I do not think the weak man like him could wear iron rings in his arms and practice Chi-shou with Bruce Lee.
About the last picture, actually you could you could do the same posture as him, you will find this posture would naturally bloat the tendon in your shoulder and arms, you do not need to be in tention. But at the same time, you would find you could not bloat the tendon as obvious as the men in the picture. He could use the posture to bloat also his chest and back, and you could see his belly, it is filled with chi and relaxed.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 5/26/2010 7:59am

Oh do stop.

**M1K3** · Posted On: 5/26/2010 8:53am

**nomamao** · Posted On: 5/26/2010 7:09pm

Ok, I was lost at "if it wasn't for his awesome tendons, he wouldn't be able to hold up those INCREDIBLY HEAVY IRON RINGS."

Is this for real?

Look, the way I see it, there's not a reason in the world to not just train your MUSCLES, because (I'm not sure I'm wrong here) the stronger they get, the better off your tendons are anyway. I could be totally wrong, but when I look guys that lift heavy weights, their tendons are HUGE.

**lcx8620** · Posted On: 5/27/2010 5:27am

Originally Posted by nomamao

Ok, I was lost at "if it wasn't for his awesome tendons, he wouldn't be able to hold up those INCREDIBLY HEAVY IRON RINGS."

Is this for real?

Look, the way I see it, there's not a reason in the world to not just train your MUSCLES, because (I'm not sure I'm wrong here) the stronger they get, the better off your tendons are anyway. I could be totally wrong, but when I look guys that lift heavy weights, their tendons are HUGE.

Your opionion is very good. That is just the point, the Zhan zhuan training deal with tendon is the relaxing motion. The muscle training could also make the tendon bigger, but only when it is nervous, it is not what we call bloat. The reason why we have to bloat tendon in the relaxing way, it is because it could be ready for any situation to block and strike without intension. If you could touch the bloating tendon, you could feel the difference, it is relaxed but full of reflexive power.