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  1. Chado is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/23/2010 2:16pm


     

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    So, it's basically wing chun vs kama sutra after all.

    Both don't have rules.
    Both have to do with groin.
    Both can be lethal.
    Both can rip your money off. At least with the second you are sure for the result.
  2. Just Guess is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/23/2010 3:15pm


     Style: ukemi & tapping out

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wingchunx2z View Post
    Actually that was a very good demonstation on centerline kicking theory applied by kicking to the groin to stop hit a round house kick. We're taught to do this at my school too. I have done this in sparring very little due to the not so nice nature of the move and now I'm retraining myself to kick the standing leg but this is a very basic wing chun idea/ the groin is one of the centerline's most vital and common target for us. I noticed his footwork was little off and his ahnd placement wasn't perfect but that was actually a pretty good example of what we're taught to do.

    It was cheating under kyokushin rules but that's why wing chun fighters complain about rules in all the arguments. This is what should technically happen in a pure wing chun fighter goes into a sports compitition.

    disqualification.

    As for the response to my post Actually according to my understanding wing chun was ORIGINALLY designed to fight against chinese kung fu. But today in modern society it's primarily taught to help the average person defend themself. If your school trains to defeat MMA fighters then that's great and I hope and wish the best for you. I look forward to seeing you perform well in sanshou or lei tai competition.
    Here's the thing. I don't give a **** about what he was trained to do or whatever theory you're claiming he applies. The bottom line is he broke the rules multiple times, and more than likely did it on purpose. He's not being mugged or attacked by some angry drunk. He's in a sporting competition where it is understood that there are rules in place that must be respected and followed. He did not respect or follow those rules, so he should not have been in those competitions in the first place.

    What he was doing is no different than if I competed in a Muay Thai match, but then started doing hip throws as a response to the clinch. Sure it's what I've been trained to do, but it's a blatant violation of the rules. I do however have an understanding that it's not allowed, so I would not enter the competition (mostly because I would be destroyed), or if I did I wouldn't be doing hip throws.
  3. wingchunx2z is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/23/2010 8:07pm


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Just Guess View Post
    Here's the thing. I don't give a **** about what he was trained to do or whatever theory you're claiming he applies. The bottom line is he broke the rules multiple times, and more than likely did it on purpose. He's not being mugged or attacked by some angry drunk. He's in a sporting competition where it is understood that there are rules in place that must be respected and followed. He did not respect or follow those rules, so he should not have been in those competitions in the first place.

    What he was doing is no different than if I competed in a Muay Thai match, but then started doing hip throws as a response to the clinch. Sure it's what I've been trained to do, but it's a blatant violation of the rules. I do however have an understanding that it's not allowed, so I would not enter the competition (mostly because I would be destroyed), or if I did I wouldn't be doing hip throws.
    Agreed. But All I meant to say was this is what my sifu encourages his fighters to do should they ever compete. Stay true to your style regardless of rules. This is also why he says he doesnt endorse competition. For better or worse this is his and quite a few other wing chun proponents stance. Uusally when they say that they don't compete becasue of this the populace of bullshido is quick to say they are using it as an excuse to avoid competition.

    Just for the record though I agree with you. It was messed up and he deserved to be disqualified undoubtedly. I just understand where the concept behind what he did came from.
  4. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/23/2010 8:13pm

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by wingchunx2z View Post
    . Uusally when they say that they don't compete becasue of this the populace of bullshido is quick to say they are using it as an excuse to avoid competition.
    It is an excuse. You either compete or you don't. Blaming the rules for why you choose not to compete is an excuse.
    I just understand where the concept behind what he did came from.
    No, you don't. Did you train or talk with him? You think you understand.
  5. Tsfen is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/23/2010 8:42pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What is the point in competing if youll just get disqualified? In a sense, a third of the WC empty hand system is teaching how to strike groin, throat, eyes, nose, ears etc, all of which are against most competition rules. Its like getting a thai boxer to a western boxing competition and telling him no kicks, knees or elbows. Do you think the thai boxer would even bother? And even if he did, would he expect to have any chance at all given that some of his most effective tecniques are not allowed?

    And for the record, yes, wingchunx2z does understand where he was coming from. It is taught in the style and drilled in very well. If someone does a round kick, you kick them in the groin, if you have their blind side and they wana step to their open side, you kick them in the groin. If they take a full step back and dont cover their centre with their knees, you kick them in the groin. Basically, if they dont cover it, theyre gonna get kicked. That doesnt mean that he should have, it just means that theres a reason as to why he did. And, as anything, theres also a reason as to why the other guys didnt cover their groin, even after being kicked there multiple times.
  6. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/23/2010 8:47pm

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     Style: xingyi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsfen View Post
    And for the record, yes, wingchunx2z does understand where he was coming from.
    For the record no he does not and neither do you. You are both making assumptions based on a video with zero commentary.

    So, for the record, you have no clue how he was taught, what he was taught or what he was thinking.

    No, as you idiot chunners love to cry about, all chun is not the same except, when it suits one of your dead horse arguments..
    Last edited by It is Fake; 5/23/2010 8:50pm at .
  7. XXIV is offline
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    Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn

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    Posted On:
    5/23/2010 8:47pm

    supporting member
     Style: Jits [2 Stripe White]

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by It is Fake View Post
    It is an excuse. You either compete or you don't. Blaming the rules for why you choose not to compete is an excuse.
    No, you don't. Did you train or talk with him? You think you understand.
    I concur. Just because my style has techniques that are illegal in competitions such as USKSF Lei Tai and other open style "Karate" tournaments doesn't mean we cannot compete.

    For instance, look at 5 Animal Kung Fu and/or Hung Gar, which is what I do. There are tons of techniques we do that would be deemed illegal in these competitions. For (specific) instance, am I going to make the excuse that I cannot compete because I'm not allowed to use a "tiger claw" to rake the face following a palm strike? Hell no. Am I going to complain because I'm not allowed to kick or otherwise strike someone's knees? No! There are other ways to defeat your opponent.

    In my opinion and experience (which is limited but frequent so take it for what it's worth), if you can aim a strike or a kick to a 'legal' part of the body then you can aim it just as well to an 'illegal/vital' area as well. Just saying. If you understand the core mechanics of your fighting system, body and footwork then you can adapt it to situations as you see fit - sport or 'street'

    It just boggles my mind. End rant. :chewy:

    EDIT: @Tsfen: In the circle I hang out in, Thai Boxers gladly accept the challenge of using fists only. Perhaps not in semipro/pro bouts, but believe me when I say quite a few see it as a challenge and an interesting change of pace.
  8. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/23/2010 9:00pm

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     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsfen View Post
    What is the point in competing if youll just get disqualified? In a sense, a third of the WC empty hand system is teaching how to strike groin, throat, eyes, nose, ears etc, all of which are against most competition rules.
    Then don't compete. Yet, don't bring your stupid views to a board where competition is considered the best way to test your ideas.


    Its like getting a thai boxer to a western boxing competition and telling him no kicks, knees or elbows. Do you think the thai boxer would even bother? And even if he did, would he expect to have any chance at all given that some of his most effective tecniques are not allowed.
    I like the stupid caveat would he be expected to win? I don't know if he had good striking training yes.

    Funny there is a pro-Wrestler winning in the UFC. So, anything can happen. I don't see him complaining about rules.

    Funny how the biggest crybabies refuse to compete. The ones that compete stfu and compete. When they lose they train harder to win.
  9. shotfghter is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/23/2010 9:12pm


     Style: Street Focus Jiujitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have an even better question that is somewhat rhetorical, Do you practice kicks to the groin or eye gouges on your partner? Does you Sifu practice them on you? I can already imagine the lesson, the sifu poking your eyes and then telling you "It's Martial Arts, stay at home if you can't handle it."
  10. wingchunx2z is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/23/2010 9:17pm


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by shotfghter View Post
    I can already imagine the lesson, the sifu poking your eyes and then telling you "It's Martial Arts, stay at home if you can't handle it."
    Sounds like master wong, just add in a tad of profanity and accented british slang lol.
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