Finally WC sparring and mixing in with ground game

**Tsfen** · Posted On: 5/22/2010 11:56pm

Where else would I find decent WC vs. any other style? Most of the stuff on youtube is some moron who thinks hes doing WC by chain punching like a sissy getting beaten up by...well...just about anyone, including the village hobo. These are the ones I could find, if you can find others that show a good WC practitioner fighting another style, please share.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 5/23/2010 12:00am

Originally Posted by Tsfen

Where else would I find decent WC vs. any other style? Most of the stuff on youtube is some moron who thinks hes doing WC by chain punching like a sissy getting beaten up by...well...just about anyone, including the village hobo. These are the ones I could find, if you can find others that show a good WC practitioner fighting another style, please share.

Read your post earlier and then think very hard about why I asked you that question.
It is called irony.

**Just Guess** · Posted On: 5/23/2010 12:06am

Originally Posted by Tsfen

If you have to make rules to cover up your own weaknesses your not proving anything either. If those guys knew how to protect their groin or face or throats or eyes, they would have.

Competitions have rules for a reason. In the case of the rules the asshat broke, they're to provide a reasonable amount of safety to the competitors. If you can't respect the rules and safety of your fellow competitors you should not be entering competitions.

**Uncle Skippy** · Posted On: 5/23/2010 12:58am

Originally Posted by Tsfen

If you have to make rules to cover up your own weaknesses your not proving anything either. If those guys knew how to protect their groin or face or throats or eyes, they would have.

Here we go into the "WC has a monopoly on dirty tactics. Other arts don't know how to use them or defend them. WC is superior." argument.

Ugh.

Just because a sport art doesn't allow them in the rules doesn't mean they won't use them on t3h deal3y str33tz.

**kwan_dao** · Posted On: 5/23/2010 1:23am

Originally Posted by Tsfen

and other than non-WC guys, ive never heard someone say that WC is designed primarily to attack someone untrained...it worked quite well against these guys:
YouTube- Wing Chun Bing Fa Kung Fu, Si sook Adrian de Boers 1995 Vs Kyokushin Karate
YouTube- Wing Chun Bing Fa Kung Fu, Sifu Julian de Boers National All Styles 1995 Wing Chun Vs Tae kwon do

Yay, if both opponents have absolutely no idea how to fight, the guy with the WC tag may win. Good point you made there.

It does not matter what name someone sticks onto himself. An untrained and/or dumb person naturally fights like beeing untrained and/or dumb. So basically, if you have two idiots fighting each other and one calls his flailing WC, the other Kyokushin, it just does not make any difference. Its still two idiots and a fight showing absolutely no ability whatsoever. The outcome would be the same, even if you randomly tagged them with other stylenames.

Match any of them against a trained fighter and its mincemeat/sandbagging time.

**Tsfen** · Posted On: 5/23/2010 2:33am

Skippy:
I never said WC has a monopoly on dirty tricks. I just think that rules or not, if someone kicks you in the groin once, you would probably anticipate that it would happen again and defend it somehow (if you knew how). Now since these guys didnt, obviously they dont know how. That doesnt mean the style doesnt cover it, it just means that there is a need to do so. You may notice in the 3rd vid i posted, the black guy with dreads he fights brought a box to the competition and didnt leave his stance wide and didnt do flashy spinning back kicks...so obviously some people do anticipate this stuff, and change their game accordingly.

Just Guess: It is a FIGHTING competition. If you want to be safe, STAY AT HOME.

It is Fake: Why then do ppl post videos of UFC/PRIDE to show their style's credibility? They are competitions like any other as well. Just because you dont see WC in the competitions you deem to show real fighting talent doesnt mean that it doesnt exist outside of those competitions. If you wanted to see WC applied in a no holds barred fight, you would have to film a street fight or one of the olden day rooftop fights and be sure one of the fighters is WC trained. Its rare to find that kinda thing for ANY style.

You may notice that in the early days of UFC, it was quite close to no holds barred, and has become increasingly regulated, you may also notice that the styles of fighting that were in UFC 1,2,3 etc were quite different to the ones used now. Part of the reason is of course evolution of various systems, but in part it is also to take advantage of the rules i.e. cant strike someone when theyre on their knees etc I wonder how fighting would change if we took away that rule, or a few others. Dont disregard the validity of a martial art based on the fact that its not on TV.

**karma2343** · Posted On: 5/23/2010 2:55am

But the problem is there is next to NO proof of WC working. Boxing has been consistently proven to win fights. Judo has been consistently proven to win fights. Muay Thai has been consistently proven to win fights. I could go on, but the point is that WC is not one of those systems. Most schools use mediocre training methods. Its at the point where a good WC is the exception, rather than the rule.

This video is a step in the right direction in the same way that ordering a half diet/half regular coke with your cheeseburger and large fries is a step in the right direction for weight loss. However, it is still not nearly enough. A boxer with a couple months of training would murk these guys. They just don't go hard enough, and a good hook could floor these guys.

As for the argument that WC trains for most people, that is not a good mentality to have. Most people that get into fights on teh streetz, even if they throw wild hay makers and have no endurance, are able to take a hit very well (otherwise they wouldn't be starting fights like that). Plus, you never know if that person might have actually had some sort of training at some point.

**Just Guess** · Posted On: 5/23/2010 3:26am

Originally Posted by Tsfen

Just Guess: It is a FIGHTING competition. If you want to be safe, STAY AT HOME.

It is a fighting COMPETITION. It is conducted with the understanding that there are rules that competitors will follow. Some of them are there to provide a reasonable level of safety to the competitors so there won't be an unreasonably high number of serious injuries. If asshat couldn't follow the rules that are there for a very good reason he should have stayed at home.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 5/23/2010 3:39am

Originally Posted by Tsfen

It is Fake: Why then do ppl post videos of UFC/PRIDE to show their style's credibility? They are competitions like any other as well. Just because you dont see WC in the competitions you deem to show real fighting talent doesnt mean that it doesnt exist outside of those competitions. If you wanted to see WC applied in a no holds barred fight, you would have to film a street fight or one of the olden day rooftop fights and be sure one of the fighters is WC trained. Its rare to find that kinda thing for ANY style.

You aren't listening. You said the competitions prove nothing but, you offered competition up as proof of Wing Chun being effective. That's you failing at logic. Don't add all of these dumbass red herrings to what you think I mean.

You may notice that in the early days of UFC, it was quite close to no holds barred, and has become increasingly regulated, you may also notice that the styles of fighting that were in UFC 1,2,3 etc were quite different to the ones used now. Part of the reason is of course evolution of various systems, but in part it is also to take advantage of the rules i.e. cant strike someone when theyre on their knees etc I wonder how fighting would change if we took away that rule, or a few others. Dont disregard the validity of a martial art based on the fact that its not on TV.

Wrong.

As usual chunners can't stay on topic of the threads they start.

You asked if your OP video was a step in the right direction. No, it is not.

As the other chunner noted, that looks okay for beginning BJJ. Really? Then not only should it not be shown outside of the school, in a video, I hope to all that is right in Martial Arts that the instructor is not teaching beginner level BJJ as a beginner himself.

**Adam_F** · Posted On: 5/23/2010 4:13am

Originally Posted by karma2343

This video is a step in the right direction in the same way that ordering a half diet/half regular coke with your cheeseburger and large fries is a step in the right direction for weight loss. However, it is still not nearly enough. A boxer with a couple months of training would murk these guys. They just don't go hard enough, and a good hook could floor these guys.

Dude, are those guys ready to go harder? They cant have more than a couple of weeks training in any martial art and obviously have no defence to speak of - the only thing keeping them from losing their teeth in a full contact bout is the hope that their opponent uses WC chain punching.

I had thought that if they want to spar full contact with WC, (for whatever personal reasons they have for engaging in such an activity), then an exercise like this to work on defence would be a way of making sure they can protect themselves from injury to some extent while sparring with their mates. It Is Fake is sure that this won't help them, I guess because it will just reinforce bad WC habits. You dudes know more than I do about that stuff.

I suppose jumping straight into full contact can teach you what doesn't work, after years of traditional (Karate) training it took some heavy head shots to teach me what doesn't work:violent1: but thats a hard lesson for a beginner - I wouldn't wish that week long headache on anyone and I doubt the instructors insurers would be too happy. On the plus side though it might convince them to drop the WC to join a proper BJJ club:nike:

Edit: (I know Judo, BJJ and Kyukoshin etc are traditional, I wasn't doing that sort of traditional!)