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  1. Angry-Monkey is offline

    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2004 12:31am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ/Kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Don't poop for a very long time.
  2. GajusCaesar is offline
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    pwning ninjas since 2004

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2004 12:55am

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     Style: Street Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok, I don't want to go against the flow or anything, but as long as you eat a reasonable amount of protein a day, you won't be able to increase your muscle mass by adding on absurd additional amounts such as you would find in protein shakes. Lifting weights to failure with a low number of reps on as much as you can lift is about the only good way to put on muscle bulk.

    By the way, I almost your exact size (6' 160#) and the most I have been able to get up to by lifting a TON (about 6 days a week) is 168. I probably have about 5% body fat as well. Anyway, don't worry about bulk. Building a large amount of powerful muscle can be a detriment as it will replace some of your "red" fibers (endurance muscle) with "white" fibers (fast, strong, easily fatigue muscle.) Each of your muscles is a mixture of the two fiber types and that mixture can be tweaked by the type of training you do (enurance vs. heavy weight training).

    If I were you, I wouldn't worry about bulking up much. Tone and condition what you have and you will be a much more effective martial artist. The small increase in strength and power you can get by bulking up more would be outweighed by your loss of endurance and flexibility. Remember, the less body weight you have to move, the quicker and easier it is to move.

    And because I am a Kyokushin nutrider, I have to bring up Francisco Filho. He's a great fighter (Kyokushin AND K-1) and most of his advantages are his flexibility and speed.
    Deluxe247 tells it like it is:

    you ninja fags just got owned in a bad way. this thread should go to the classics and mega thread forum due to the sheer size of taebo_master and gajusceaser's penis. (with which they just smacked across these ninja's faces)
    from:

    This Classic Thread - http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9653&perpage=15&pagenum ber=14
  3. Owen is offline
    Owen's Avatar

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2004 1:22am


     Style: Vaghi BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by GajusCaesar
    [B]Ok, I don't want to go against the flow or anything, but as long as you eat a reasonable amount of protein a day, you won't be able to increase your muscle mass by adding on absurd additional amounts such as you would find in protein shakes. Lifting weights to failure with a low number of reps on as much as you can lift is about the only good way to put on muscle bulk.[b]
    I may differ with your thoughts on lifting to failure, but it is a proven way of adding mass, though most of the research I've seen lately would point to a medium number of reps for maximum growth while lower reps would concentrate on 1rm strength. I've always liked Matt Wiggins approach to weight training for martial arts as I believe strength endurance to be more important than 1rm strength. I'll find the link if you'd like to read more about it.

    By the way, I almost your exact size (6' 160#) and the most I have been able to get up to by lifting a TON (about 6 days a week) is 168. I probably have about 5% body fat as well. Anyway, don't worry about bulk. Building a large amount of powerful muscle can be a detriment as it will replace some of your "red" fibers (endurance muscle) with "white" fibers (fast, strong, easily fatigue muscle.) Each of your muscles is a mixture of the two fiber types and that mixture can be tweaked by the type of training you do (enurance vs. heavy weight training).
    I'm interested in sources you might have on tweaking the fiber ratio. I try to follow the Hyperplasia/Hypertrophy debate as well as the debate around changing the actual types of fibers within the muscle. Most thought nowadays is not actually to lift more times during the week, but fewer times per week and letting the muscle recover completely. Diet being the biggest building block.

    If I were you, I wouldn't worry about bulking up much. Tone and condition what you have and you will be a much more effective martial artist. The small increase in strength and power you can get by bulking up more would be outweighed by your loss of endurance and flexibility. Remember, the less body weight you have to move, the quicker and easier it is to move.
    I think the less flexible as you gain muscle thing might actually be a bodybuilding myth, but I'll look for some legitimate sources before saying anything concrete.

    And because I am a Kyokushin nutrider, I have to bring up Francisco Filho. He's a great fighter (Kyokushin AND K-1) and most of his advantages are his flexibility and speed.
    He is a monster.
  4. FingerorMoon? is offline

    The man they call FoM

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2004 1:28am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Reading this thread makes my brain hurt.

    You said you were 17.
    Don't spend too much time worrying about mass training for now.
    Your body is growing, its not concerned with putting on muscle mass at the moment.
    The Wastrel - So attractive he HAS to be a woman.
    - Pizdoff
  5. smally is offline

    Registered Member

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2004 1:34am


     Style: kickboxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    i am verry skinny as well im still getting stro,nger without gaining a lot of weight actually it goes up and down at 130 lbs not above 134.But still i am not losing strength i am currently doing 33lbs single handed curls(20 reps),tri pull down 220 lbs(40 reps)its not really strong yet but it goes good uop from the 20 lbs i lifted this summer and the 110 lbs tri pull down...If its for competition absolute strength is the only important thing i think.In real life if u meet a 100 lbs heavyer fighter u have to rely on the fact that u are a good runner or a better fighter in mind...unless he is completely fat ofcourse.Just do a lot of speed drills to get ure strength u gained in the gym in the ring.
    Last edited by smally; 2/20/2004 1:39am at .
  6. xoaxos is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2004 1:58am


     Style: muay-thai/judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    at 5'5 152 i am fucking sexy
  7. TaeBo_Master is offline
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    Certified Fitness Trainer

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2004 2:10am

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Judo, Jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just keep lifting. Find what workouts affect your body the most. Some people get stronger faster by higher reps (such as myself, and I'm a somewhat bulky guy), and for some people lower reps but heavier weights get you stronger faster.

    But the point is, in order to be stronger, a muscle fiber MUST increase its size. So it stands to logic that if you keep working out to get stronger, you'll gain mass. It may be a very very slow process, but it WILL happen.

    Case in point. One of my closest friends back in CA start high school as a scrawny little punk. I mean he was the definition of pencil neck. He started weight lifting for strength, not caring about size. Within a year he had probably gained over 50 pounds of muscle, and incredible strength. Granted, he had some miracle genetics obviously, but the point remains. In order to get stronger (beyond the level of strength which enhanced innervation gives you), your body must eventually get bigger.
    Click To Get My Free Training Newsletter... Do It NOW!


    "You all just got fucking owned.";
    "TaeBo_Master and GajusCaesar just scored 10,000,000 points on all you pawns."

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  8. TaeBo_Master is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/20/2004 2:18am

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Judo, Jujitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    And there is also no truth to the myth that bulking up reduces flexibility, so long as you still stretch fully. Full range weight lifting can actually increase range of motion SOMEWHAT. Also, a large part of flexibility is in your tendons, so adding muscle mass won't affect those much. Another big part of flexibility is what's called the stretch reflex. It's a reflex your body has built in to protect from over extension of a muscle. Basically what it does is that when it senses a muscle is being pulled to tightly, it forces that muscle to contract, thus limiting the range of motion. By stretching consistently, you can gradually decondition this reflex so that what your body perceives as a safe range of motion increases, and it'll let you go farther before it contracts that muscle automatically. Again, muscle mass alone has little to do with that. What causes bulky guys to have poor flexibility is that usually they tend to focus solely on their muscle mass. And some might have bad genetics. Myself on the other hand, I stretch and lift in conjunction, and I see consistent increases in both flexibility and mass.
    Click To Get My Free Training Newsletter... Do It NOW!


    "You all just got fucking owned.";
    "TaeBo_Master and GajusCaesar just scored 10,000,000 points on all you pawns."

    - The Wastrel
  9. SMF is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/20/2004 3:08am


     Style: Delusional Idiocy

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    hmmm great potential for extended debate about sacroplasm....
  10. GajusCaesar is offline
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    pwning ninjas since 2004

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    Posted On:
    2/20/2004 3:42am

    supporting member
     Style: Street Yoga

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Owen, great post. I'll get back to you on sources about muscle fiber composition, etc. I have to study for an exam now.

    Adding significant bulk DOES reduce flexibility. As the muscle belly becomes larger, it's resting tone will increase as well resulting in a shorter overall length. Furthermore, the muscle fibers will respond to the increased stress by increasing the ratio of inelastic collagen fibers to stretchy elastin fibers. This reduces flexibility. The muscle will be able to handle a much higher static or dynamic load, but its maximum length will be reduced.

    I'd be a good scientist and post sources for the above but I have to pass my hematology exam tomorrow. That reminds me. Andy Hug was a fighting god. May he rest in peace.
    Deluxe247 tells it like it is:

    you ninja fags just got owned in a bad way. this thread should go to the classics and mega thread forum due to the sheer size of taebo_master and gajusceaser's penis. (with which they just smacked across these ninja's faces)
    from:

    This Classic Thread - http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9653&perpage=15&pagenum ber=14
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