Shime Waza in the real world

**Mtripp** · Posted On: 5/14/2010 3:24pm

How many people here have trained with me at clinics where I make it clear choking on the street is different than in a sporting event?

http://cbs2chicago.com/local/cvs.sho...2.1685972.html

My point is made....

...there is a flaw in the story. However, this is the advanced section, so how should we do it?

**Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs** · Posted On: 5/14/2010 3:37pm

Originally Posted by Mtripp

How many people here have trained with me at clinics where I make it clear choking on the street is different than in a sporting event?

http://cbs2chicago.com/local/cvs.sho...2.1685972.html

My point is made....

...there is a flaw in the story. However, this is the advanced section, so how should we do it?

The flaw is that a person has to be +/- 3 minutes unconsious of air deprivement before enough braintrauma has occured to kill a person.
The victim could not be struggling and being strangled to death at the same time. It's coldblooded murder (intenionally or not) to keep a chokehold on from 3 minutes after the victim passed out.

**DKJr** · Posted On: 5/14/2010 3:42pm

The flaw is when he's screaming "I can't breathe, I can't breathe" he can breath.

**Mtripp** · Posted On: 5/14/2010 3:45pm

Originally Posted by David Koresh Jr.

The flaw is when he's screaming "I can't breathe, I can't breathe" he can breath.

That is the flaw in the story.

Obviously it was held too long, that in the flaw in the actions.

**Res Judicata** · Posted On: 5/14/2010 3:49pm

Perhaps it's a bit off point, but it makes an interesting compare and contrast with the story posted in another thread about the Judo brown belt who held a gunman down for seven minutes until the police arrived.

Judo brown belt whacks mugger with a chair - No BS MMA and Martial Arts

I'm similarly reminded of a dojo mate who works as an EMT. As part of his job he was struggling with a mentally disturbed person. He caught him in an armlock but it was useless -- he couldn't justify breaking the man's arm.

**DKJr** · Posted On: 5/14/2010 3:50pm

Originally Posted by Mtripp

That is the flaw in the story.

Obviously it was held too long, that in the flaw in the actions.

Yay what do I win? Also what a jackass, just choke him out. Then establish a good solid position till the cops come.

**Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs** · Posted On: 5/14/2010 3:55pm

The problem is that there's a good chance that the employee has never seen the inside of a Judo Dojo or a BJJ Gym.
There are enough "instructoral" vids of chokeholds on youtube for anyone to see. Some are good, some are not so good (understatement), but (almost) non adres the situation and the danger that using such techniques imply.

**cuatro76** · Posted On: 5/14/2010 4:29pm

Well, the article says 3 men helped hold him down. This reminds me of an incident maybe 10 years ago on a Southwest Airlines flight where an unruly passenger was held down by several other passengers and died of asphyxiation. Maybe it was a combination of the choke hold and the other guys putting too much weight on his chest for too long?

**Lindz** · Posted On: 5/14/2010 6:58pm

Originally Posted by cuatro76

Well, the article says 3 men helped hold him down. This reminds me of an incident maybe 10 years ago on a Southwest Airlines flight where an unruly passenger was held down by several other passengers and died of asphyxiation. Maybe it was a combination of the choke hold and the other guys putting too much weight on his chest for too long?

it reminds me of robert dziekanski who got zapped and then sat on by four of Canada's finest then died of asphyxiation.

**It is Fake** · Posted On: 5/14/2010 7:12pm

Originally Posted by cuatro76

Well, the article says 3 men helped hold him down. This reminds me of an incident maybe 10 years ago on a Southwest Airlines flight where an unruly passenger was held down by several other passengers and died of asphyxiation. Maybe it was a combination of the choke hold and the other guys putting too much weight on his chest for too long?

Yeah that one doesn't fit because, there were conflicting stories from
asphyxiation:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...ssengers_x.htm

Sometimes those efforts can be lethal. In 2000, Jonathan Burton, a passenger on a Southwest flight from Las Vegas to Salt Lake City, died after passengers and crewmembers tried to subdue him. Burton, 19, had kicked a hole in the cockpit door and became violent. An autopsy showed he suffocated. No charges were filed.

to murder:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...,55721,00.html

Others jumped up to subdue him. Women screamed; children began to cry. Eight men eventually wrestled the 6-ft., 190-lb. Burton to the floor. "It is over," a man told him, yelling obscenities. "You are not getting up." But the mob may have got carried away. Dean Harvey, who was sitting in the third row with his wife and 11-month-old daughter, says a burly man jumped repeatedly onto Burton's chest. "You've got the guy subdued, what more do you want?" Harvey says he told the man, who jumped twice more before stopping. Harvey's account has not been confirmed by airline officials or other passengers.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...#ixzz0nx680LbB

According to the police report people had their feet and other limbs on his throat.
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/southwest1.html