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  1. LarsCG is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/26/2010 1:54pm


     Style: Judo/Roadwork

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim_Jude View Post
    No, but actually, there were FIVE Bruces.
    - Bruce the actor
    - Bruce the plagiarizing hack-philosopher
    - Bruce the martial master dabbler
    - Bruce the vain exercise fanatic
    - and Bruce the dish washah!
    We can fit in some more - even some philosophy:
    YouTube- Monty Python - Bruce

    Regards,
    Lars
  2. ChenPengFi is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/26/2010 2:03pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Hung Gar, Choy Lay Fut

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by LarsCG View Post
    We can fit in some more - even some philosophy:
    YouTube- Monty Python - Bruce

    Regards,
    Lars
    Let's not forget:
    YouTube- They Call Me Bruce - (Funny Fight Scene)
  3. ChenPengFi is online now
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    Posted On:
    5/26/2010 2:23pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Hung Gar, Choy Lay Fut

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
  4. Mtripp is offline
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    Choked out by Gene Lebell

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    Posted On:
    5/26/2010 2:37pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DerAuslander108 View Post
    So, do you have any actual evidence to counter what JKDeeznutz has posted?

    Do you have evidence indicating that this Kato-sensei and his Judo dojo do or did not exist?

    Do you have any evidence indicating that Bruce Lee did not study with Kato-sensei for a period of three months, more or less?

    Do you have any evidence that Kato-sensei did not teach Jesse Glover for a period of time?

    Do you have any evidence indicating that Kato-sensei did not teach Taky Kimura while the two where in an internment camp?

    Before you get on the whole "You can't prove the negative" shtick, you don't need to prove a negative in order to prove someone wrong.

    JKDeeznutz has posted and cited information indicating these claims in the positive.

    I would offer you the following suggestions for proving him wrong.

    Provide evidence that Kato-sensei is a fictional character.

    Provide evidence that Kato-sensei was not in Seattle at the time that he is claimed to be.

    Unless you have evidence indicative of any of these counters...

    You need to shut the **** up.
    First, really try and focus. The person making the claim has to provide the proof. It is NOT my job to disprove them. Do you understand that now or should I try again with crayon?

    Second, I gave up caring one wit long ago about little chihuahua's yipping at their monitor and trying to sound like a big dog; so the STFU thing is to laugh.

    But, I am waiting to see a single bit of evidence Bruce Lee EVER had a Judo gi on and did Judo randori let alone fought at a shiai. If not, then the Judo claim is as fatuous as your defense of it.
    "Out of every hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back." -- Hericletus, circa 500 BC
  5. Mtripp is offline
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    Choked out by Gene Lebell

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    Posted On:
    5/26/2010 3:00pm

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     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Ok, lets try just a little bit of logic here.

    Take ANYONE, let them train in ANYTHING at College MA class, then come in here and claim to be an expert in said martial art....

    ...you guys would be all over them. No WAY you'd let it pass.

    Now, here is a simple bit of simple logic. If Bruce Lee had some real Judo skills by the time he did the Green Hornet, where was it on the show? ZERO Judo throws in ANY of the fights. In fact, Van Williams attempted more Judo in the series than Bruce did. They are all there for the world to see. Then look a bit closer and notice how many times the "bad guy" on the Green Hornet is Gene LeBell. I will leave it to you to connect the dots here.

    Judo training at the internment camps? You really want to keep selling that one? It took months of hard work to get the Kodokan reopened after Japan lost the war and only then when Resi Kano promised that Judo would only be taught as a Sport, NOT a method of Combat. In as much as this was NOT the case before the end of the war, you want to try and sell us that the interred Japanese were allowed to train in a combat art? Hardly.

    Again, the people you speak of likely knew a throw or two, likely had seen a Judo class. However to either infer or imply this equals skill in Judo is both an insult to the people who really did master it; and to THE PEOPLE WHO REALLY DID EXPOSE BRUCE TO GRAPPLING AND JUDO, NAMELY WALLY JAY AND GENE LEBELL.

    I know both of those men personally, and both men have told me their relationship with Bruce, and what they taught him. As of yet none of those stories are spoken of, including in the book people think I have never seen or read.

    Now some of you can continue flex for your monitor, it is to laugh. I will be in NC at the World's Greatest Judo Camp. Come talk smack to my face or YOU shut the **** up cause internet posing is for punks.

    Fact: Not a single movement in any way looking like Judo in "Bruce Lee's fighting method." That series was to be the manual for people to train like Bruce.

    Fact: Yes, there are drawings of submissions in the Tao. These were copied from Gene LeBell books that Bruce bought. However, there is NO Judo concepts there. No closing the distance to clinch to takedown.

    Fact: YES, Larry Hartsell did bring grappling to JKD. He deserves ALL the credit for "putting it together" in the JKD context. However, the simple truth is the vast majority of people thought grappling a waste of time till the Gracies came along.

    Fact: The Lebell story (where he pounded Bruce) was covered up and hidden for years. It wasn't until Ed Parker finally put it in print that others did as well. Gene to this day makes light of it, but the story of him carrying Bruce around the set came AFTER the fight.

    I can go on and on. Because while all of you are reading history, I am remembering it because I was there. So it really doesn't matter to me what you believe...

    ...because belief has NOTHING to do with the truth.
    "Out of every hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back." -- Hericletus, circa 500 BC
  6. BoonDog is offline
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    Welterweight

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    Posted On:
    5/26/2010 3:03pm

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     Style: running scared

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post
    First, really try and focus. The person making the claim has to provide the proof.
    He offered proof. Can you dispute the proof offered. It the Seattle Times wrong? Does the dojo not exist?

    It is NOT my job to disprove them. Do you understand that now or should I try again with crayon?

    But, I am waiting to see a single bit of evidence Bruce Lee EVER had a Judo gi on and did Judo randori let alone fought at a shiai. If not, then the Judo claim is as fatuous as your defense of it.
    Would a letter from someone at the judo school referenced suffice as evidence that Bruce learned some Judo? Just trying to clarify what evidence you would find acceptable about the claim that Bruce studied some Judo.
  7. Snake Plissken is offline
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    When I Get Back

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    Posted On:
    5/26/2010 3:08pm

    supporting member
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Osaka peach View Post
    I think Antonio Inoki is partly responsible for that mainstreem opinion, by the way
    Antonio Inoki is also partly resposible for the mainstream opinion of legkicking the **** out of a boxer works, so what is your actual point?
  8. DerAuslander is offline
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    Valiant Monk of Booze & War

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    Posted On:
    5/26/2010 3:23pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: BJJ/C-JKD/KAAALIII!!!!!!!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post
    First, really try and focus. The person making the claim has to provide the proof. It is NOT my job to disprove them. Do you understand that now or should I try again with crayon?
    That person has supplied cited evidence. It is now your job to disprove that evidence.

    You've proven on multiple occasions to be unable to grasp basic logical process. This is just a continuation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post
    Second, I gave up caring one wit long ago about little chihuahua's yipping at their monitor and trying to sound like a big dog; so the STFU thing is to laugh.
    Tripp, if logic were Judo, you'd never even be able to grip my gi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post
    But, I am waiting to see a single bit of evidence Bruce Lee EVER had a Judo gi on and did Judo randori let alone fought at a shiai. If not, then the Judo claim is as fatuous as your defense of it.
    The evidence has been supplied. You have to verify its authenticity before you ever call it fatuous.

    Further, I have not defended the Judo claim. You once again are unable to grasp basic logic. I have merely demonstrated how your counterargument is a level of bullshit I do not expect from a grown man who claims to understand what he's talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post
    Take ANYONE, let them train in ANYTHING at College MA class, then come in here and claim to be an expert in said martial art....

    ...you guys would be all over them. No WAY you'd let it pass.
    Tripp, no one here has made that claim. That is your red herring. You are making the fallacy of false attribution. You've created a strawman to rail against, and thus, don't even understand what anyone here is talking about.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post
    Now, here is a simple bit of simple logic. If Bruce Lee had some real Judo skills by the time he did the Green Hornet, where was it on the show? ZERO Judo throws in ANY of the fights. In fact, Van Williams attempted more Judo in the series than Bruce did. They are all there for the world to see. Then look a bit closer and notice how many times the "bad guy" on the Green Hornet is Gene LeBell. I will leave it to you to connect the dots here.
    Irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post
    Judo training at the internment camps? You really want to keep selling that one? It took months of hard work to get the Kodokan reopened after Japan lost the war and only then when Resi Kano promised that Judo would only be taught as a Sport, NOT a method of Combat. In as much as this was NOT the case before the end of the war, you want to try and sell us that the interred Japanese were allowed to train in a combat art? Hardly.
    Prove it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post
    Again, the people you speak of likely knew a throw or two, likely had seen a Judo class. However to either infer or imply this equals skill in Judo is both an insult to the people who really did master it; and to THE PEOPLE WHO REALLY DID EXPOSE BRUCE TO GRAPPLING AND JUDO, NAMELY WALLY JAY AND GENE LEBELL.
    This is your strawman, not what is being discussed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post
    Now some of you can continue flex for your monitor, it is to laugh. I will be in NC at the World's Greatest Judo Camp. Come talk smack to my face or YOU shut the **** up cause internet posing is for punks.
    I'm unable to travel to NC this weekend, but I would have no problem saying anything I've said here to your face. If I'm ever in Detroit again, I'd love to continue this conversation over a beer. It's sad that you think physical intimidation is a replacement for logic argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post
    Fact: Not a single movement in any way looking like Judo in "Bruce Lee's fighting method." That series was to be the manual for people to train like Bruce.
    Irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post
    Fact: Yes, there are drawings of submissions in the Tao. These were copied from Gene LeBell books that Bruce bought. However, there is NO Judo concepts there. No closing the distance to clinch to takedown.
    Also irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post
    Fact: YES, Larry Hartsell did bring grappling to JKD. He deserves ALL the credit for "putting it together" in the JKD context. However, the simple truth is the vast majority of people thought grappling a waste of time till the Gracies came along.
    Also irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post
    Fact: The Lebell story (where he pounded Bruce) was covered up and hidden for years. It wasn't until Ed Parker finally put it in print that others did as well. Gene to this day makes light of it, but the story of him carrying Bruce around the set came AFTER the fight.
    Also irrelevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post
    I can go on and on. Because while all of you are reading history, I am remembering it because I was there.
    Were you in the Japanese internment camps or in the Kato-sensei's dojo in Seattle?

    Because those are the only two relevant pieces of information to this discussion.

    The rest is just obfuscation.:spam4:
  9. jkdeez is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/26/2010 5:30pm


     Style: fangfu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Mr Tripp

    You need to take a deep breath man. I offer you detailed specific evidence yet you still claim,"But it's not in Bruce Lee's Fighting Methods." Okay you are correct sir, congratulations. Now can YOU do the simple task of going to your local bookstore and look at the BOOK I USED AS EVIDENCE because there are at least 4 pictures of Bruce with a Gi.

    Now you make false claims that I or anyone else was saying Bruce tried to pass himself off as a Judo master or competed. These are all you buddy because nobody even said anything close to that. All I said was the Bruce loved Judo and grappling.

    Now you challenge the validity of teaching Judo at internment camps? Wow you really are a stubborn mule aren't you. Look it up because you sound ignorant, what are you a Japanese historian? Dude my wife is from Japan and even she knows Judo because they teach it to you in elementary school and high school.

    Now here is the best part. You are now challenging people to come meet you at a Judo tournament, LOMFL. Are you serious? You have a Ken Shamrock complex or is it the steroids? All I did was make a claim backed by concrete evidence that Bruce loved Judo and studied officially for 3 months and unofficially for an unspecified amount of time. Seriously man nobody wants to fight except you, I just want to prove something I know is right.
    Last edited by jkdeez; 5/26/2010 5:47pm at .
  10. jkdeez is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/26/2010 5:41pm


     Style: fangfu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Pgs 182 and 183 from Regards From The Dragon Seattle by David Tadman

    The picture of Bruce practicing the throw is with Fred Sato, who is an instructor at Seattle Dojo.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by jkdeez; 5/26/2010 5:52pm at .
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