226090 Bullies, 4148 online  
  • Register
Our Sponsors:

Results 1 to 9 of 9
Sponsored Links Spacer Image
  1. CarlosJesena is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Manila, Philippines
    Posts
    299

    Posted On:
    5/18/2010 11:07pm


     Style: BJJ, TKD, Lifting+Cardio

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    One arm behind-the-back guard pass-Troubleshooting

    Hey guys. So I usually use 2 guard passes. The basic one where you go to proper posture inside guard, put on knee on the guy's butt, pull your other leg back then break the guard open, then slice your knee through. I think some people call that the tailbone break pass. My other option is this:

    YouTube- Judo for MMA - "One Armed Man" Guard Pass

    YouTube- THE SLING - ARM TRAP - TRAP THE ARM BEHIND THE BACK FROM INSIDE GUARD - kentuckymartialarts.com

    Actually this is my favorite pass. I just have a question about the details of this pass. I've pulled this off many times but I'm not really sure what the exact procedure for the differet steps in this pass is. I actually use the Marcelo Garcia version (can't find the vid) where once the arm is behind his back, I change the arm that's holding his trapped arm then I crawl out of the guard.

    1.) How do you trap your opponent's hand to the mat? I don't like to use brute force to drive it to the mat the push it to keep it there.
    2.) Feeding the trapped hand behind your opponent's back: When you're bringing the trapped arm to the other side, should you be moving or are you using your arms to feed it. Example, I have my opponent's right arm trapped and I'm feeding it from my right hand to my left hand, behind his back. Should I be moving to the right or should I just be stacking then using my arms to bring the hand over. Everyone teaches this step differently.
    3.) Changing grips: When the arm is finally trapped behind his back to the other side, should I be still stacking him when I change the hand that's holding his trapped arm or should I be kneeling or whatever?

    Thanks guys! Anyone else use this pass?
  2. ChenPengFi is online now
    ChenPengFi's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Hawai'i
    Posts
    3,239

    Posted On:
    5/19/2010 1:18pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Hung Gar, Choy Lay Fut

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I use this pass.
    YouTube- Marcelo Garcia, Submission Grappling, MMA, Passing The Guard

    I try to do it pretty much just like the vid.
    1 @ 1:40 and 2:45 he details this a little.
    2 I reach around deep with the other (left in your case) hand. I find i can control the hips this way too.

    3 Standing and stacking

    Curious as to other takes on this one myself.
  3. Kintanon is offline
    Kintanon's Avatar

    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Athens, Ga
    Posts
    5,683

    Posted On:
    5/19/2010 1:53pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CarlosJesena View Post

    1.) How do you trap your opponent's hand to the mat? I don't like to use brute force to drive it to the mat the push it to keep it there.
    2.) Feeding the trapped hand behind your opponent's back: When you're bringing the trapped arm to the other side, should you be moving or are you using your arms to feed it. Example, I have my opponent's right arm trapped and I'm feeding it from my right hand to my left hand, behind his back. Should I be moving to the right or should I just be stacking then using my arms to bring the hand over. Everyone teaches this step differently.
    3.) Changing grips: When the arm is finally trapped behind his back to the other side, should I be still stacking him when I change the hand that's holding his trapped arm or should I be kneeling or whatever?

    Thanks guys! Anyone else use this pass?
    I've used this pass before and trapping the hand to the mat is usually the least of my problems. I bury my head in my opponents stomach and get a body lock, when they reach down to mess with my head or arms I snatch the wrist and pin it while stacking, pass the wrist under and drop back down.
    My problem is that I then sit there fighting to break their guard open while they struggle to rip their arm free. Most of the time they free their arm before I can open their guard. The same has been true for everyone who has tried to pass my guard this way except for a couple of people back when I was a noob.
    In my experience this pass has been low percentage and I would love to know some tips for completed the pass once you have trapped the arm.
  4. CarlosJesena is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Manila, Philippines
    Posts
    299

    Posted On:
    5/19/2010 7:31pm


     Style: BJJ, TKD, Lifting+Cardio

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hey guys, this is actually pretty much the EXACT pass that I do:

    YouTube- Arm Behind The Back Crawl Out To Reverse Kesa Gatame Pass (Marcelo Garcia)

    I actually don't try to break the guard, I just push myself out of it. I find that it takes a lot of energy to open the guard. Thoughts on this?

    Plus, I land straight into Reverse Kesa Gatame
    Last edited by CarlosJesena; 5/19/2010 7:35pm at .
  5. WhiteShark is offline
    WhiteShark's Avatar

    1% Shark is better than you.

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Atlanta GA
    Posts
    9,179

    Posted On:
    5/20/2010 9:59am

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The two Marcelo versions itt are much higher percentage in my experience.

    I've actually started countering the first two versions with omo plata with about 60% success. To use the omo plata as a counter you have to go for it as soon as they reach for your arm though. Otherwise if they do it right they can kill your hips too much.
  6. money is offline
    money's Avatar

    Flyweight

    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
    Posts
    1,578

    Posted On:
    5/20/2010 1:04pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, MT, MMA, CQB

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark View Post
    The two Marcelo versions itt are much higher percentage in my experience.

    I've actually started countering the first two versions with omo plata with about 60% success. To use the omo plata as a counter you have to go for it as soon as they reach for your arm though. Otherwise if they do it right they can kill your hips too much.
    Awesome, this is something that another classmate and I have been trying to work since we're the smallest guys in the class and often have larger people trying to pin an arm behind our back. Any other tips you've got would be appreciated, WS.
    :Determined:
    HTFU and join Bullshido on Fitocracy!
    http://ftcy.co/tBAxyj
  7. WhiteShark is offline
    WhiteShark's Avatar

    1% Shark is better than you.

    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Atlanta GA
    Posts
    9,179

    Posted On:
    5/20/2010 1:37pm

    supporting memberforum leaderstaff
     Style: BJJ/Shidokan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I wish I had better tips on it. I think the Omo plata is a really good counter to this but I definitely have problems doing it on certain people. I haven't refined it enough to really identify what specifically messes me up. Like I said i know one thing is to go for it way early.

    It has to do with killing the hip movement you need for an omo plata. When someone first passes the arm under you there is a moment where your hips are off the ground. Otherwise they couldn't get the arm under you (obviously). That is when you have to open your guard and start turning for the Omo. Otherwise they will pin your hips when they come back down.

    @2:00 in this video you can see the opening I am talking about.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqEcKADdLko#t=1m55s

    When he posts his arm before he grabs the head.
  8. CarlosJesena is offline

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Manila, Philippines
    Posts
    299

    Posted On:
    5/20/2010 8:02pm


     Style: BJJ, TKD, Lifting+Cardio

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteShark View Post
    I wish I had better tips on it. I think the Omo plata is a really good counter to this but I definitely have problems doing it on certain people. I haven't refined it enough to really identify what specifically messes me up. Like I said i know one thing is to go for it way early.

    It has to do with killing the hip movement you need for an omo plata. When someone first passes the arm under you there is a moment where your hips are off the ground. Otherwise they couldn't get the arm under you (obviously). That is when you have to open your guard and start turning for the Omo. Otherwise they will pin your hips when they come back down.

    @2:00 in this video you can see the opening I am talking about.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqEcKADdLko#t=1m55s

    When he posts his arm before he grabs the head.
    Hey man, I know what you mean. When I started using this pass, I kept getting omoplata'd. My coach showed me that the way to prevent getting countered with an omoplata when you go for this pass is to tuck your elbow in as soon as you trap the hand on to the mat and to post and kill the hips immediately. It becomes a game of speed when both guys know the pass and the counter I guess.


    Also, Kintanon,

    I'm interested in the fact that in your experience, this pass is low percentage. It's actually one of the "go-to" passes that 2 of us on our team have and we've been pretty successful. What problems have encountered with it aside from not being able to open the guard? Also, did you try the 2nd Marcelo version posted?

    When the guy is really strong and we can't open up his guard with that basic pass (the one where you put one knee on his butt then pull the other leg back), this is the pass we do.

    Cheers!
  9. Kintanon is offline
    Kintanon's Avatar

    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Athens, Ga
    Posts
    5,683

    Posted On:
    5/20/2010 9:31pm

    supporting memberstaff
     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My problem with it is almost exclusively related to my inability to get past the legs with one of my arms unavailable to me. When I try to push it down with my body most people are strong enough to just hold me upright and with my arm locked down holding their wrist I can't get my body further along their leg to increase my leverage. I think a lot of it is just a body composition issue for me since I'm a short lightweight. If I don't get everything 1000% perfect this pass doesn't work for me. I much prefer passing using double underhooks on the legs or baseball sliding. I just like having both of my arms available since I find it easier to defeat my opponents arms with mine than to defeat his legs with my body.
    And obviously since I don't prefer this pass I don't PRACTICE it enough to get good at it. So I'm not saying this pass is low percentage overall, I'm just saying I suck at it, so it's low percentage for me.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Powered by vBulletin™© contact@vbulletin.com vBulletin Solutions, Inc. 2011 All rights reserved.