Article: Joe Lewis on streetfighters
8/09/2011 6:20am, #31
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- Southwest Mo
8/13/2011 4:34pm, #32
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8/15/2011 9:42am, #33
I'm bumping this thread for two reasons.
1, It's a good thread, worth rereading.
2, While attempting to find it using google, i found this critque of the article. It's written by one Richie Grannon, who had a run with these boards once on the Systema mega thread. Here's the original link.
Everything after the word 'Enjoy' are Richie's words and not mine.
Im sorry but I just CANNOT reisist:
If you have never endured the experience standing toe to toe with this type of world-class fighter while having him fire educated punches, kicks, elbows, and knees with cold-blooded, world-class accuracy and conviction, then you canít speak from knowledge or with any confidence, nor have the slightest clue about what youíre talking on the subject of fighting.
People pursuing martial arts have been for years conditioned to ask all the wrong questions. The classic misleading question, "What combat martial art is the best?" The real question should be, "Why do I need martial arts?" Martial arts is like dieting; it is not, "What do I eat," but more importantly, "Why do I eat?"
Learning to do sport karate or kickboxing a la Joe Lewis is NOT the answer! God I wish it were, how simple life would be... but learning to kickbox or any kind of combat sport can give you skills and attributes that are applicable to a str33t context.
Why oh why, christ on high do we have to make such a big mental division inside our heads??? people arent that dumb!!! they CAN deal with the ambiguity!
In the animal kingdom, snakes donít fight like birds nor do tigers fight like butterflies. Humans have many technical challenges to overcome without trying to learn to fight like some kind of bird or insect or other animal type. Learning to fight like a human is difficult enough.
The only "records" streetfighters have are down at the police department. The seasoned officers with whom Iíve worked describe their many encounters with streetfighters, for the most part, as being nothing more than a joke. These officers report that in the end, all they have is a big mouth.
"Streetfighter," and then with the same zeal, grant the streetfighter higher combat status, claiming ring fighters canít streetfight? What major flaws does anyone detect rendering pro fighters helpless or at a disadvantage in a street fight when observing sport fighters, the likes of Mike Tyson or Frank Shamrock and others?
as to the second part, right off the top of my head?
1.punching with gloves on is SIGNIFICANTLY different than punching bareknuckle as Mike Tyson himself proved when he busted his knuckles and wrist in a brawl!!!
2. the concrete sucks to grapple on- I know, my base is combat sports and grappling is altered by tarmac and bottles, I know this from fisrt hand experience
these are just two disadvantages of sport combat training to street scenarios
Take 10 top professional fighters ("K-1," "U.F.C.," "Pride," etc.) and put them into a street context. Most rational experts would overwhelmingly select the outcome to largely favor the pros.
Streetfighting does have its place, but is streetfighting nothing more than a well-timed trick or sucker punch?
Stick to teaching kickboxing. Stay within your operational experience, you already admitted you've never even seen a street fight let alone been in one so you arent qualified to instruct on the subject.
Lastly, I can assure you that a much greater number of ring fighters have tested and proven their skills in the "street" than the number of streetfighters who have ever entered the ring. If you took 10 top ring fighters and 10 top streetfighters and let each group test their skills in the otherís forum, which would have the higher winning percentage? A ring fighterís abilities will always, hands down, work far better for him in the street than a streetfighterís abilities could ever help him in a ring fight.
I think Joe Lewis has a chip on his shoulder and insecurities about dealing with rough arseholes who dont respect or know of his kickboxing titles in less than ideal scenarios.
I know of plenty of MMA fighters who can and do have it in the street regularly. I cant think off the top of my head of anyone who I would call a "street fighter" as such, it just doesnt compute for me.
Well done Joe Lewis for holding everyone back with meaningless inflammatory bullshit arguments riddled with circular logic and inaccuracy... its not even a proper debate!
You may as well argue the case of ring fighters vs werewolves... they (werewolves) dont exist ergo its fucking meaningless
there are plenty of fit, strong, well trained people out there who dont believe that speed power and accuracy are under the sole ownership of men who choose to play "fighting themed" sporting GAMES in sterile controlled environments:
Nor could the streetfighter maintain professional speed, power, and accuracy, which take years of hard training to develop, working with tough sparring partners aided by profoundly smart trainers.
Didnt Joe Lewis attack grapplers in much the same way 10 years ago in Black Belt?
I do not consider myself or anyone "a street fighter" but I do strongly object to this guy claiming ownership of skills and ability- the sheer fucking arrogance !!!
Elitist pompous bullshit.
Dont buy into this, you dont have to be a ring "fighter" (game player) to protect yourself or to learn to fight.
Joe Lewis, Go comb your hair you silly old man."So, yeah, Zen teachers may well insult you, work you to the bone, hit you with sticks, shout verbal abuse at you, and punch the **** out of you.
And when the ****'s been punched out of you, you might just find that you're far better-off without it." - Vieux Normand
"So in short, BJJ wins again. BJJ, and chainmail." - TheMightyMcClaw
"On bullshido, your opinions are not sacred, neither are your feelings." - Scrapper
"You entered the lions' den. Don't bitch if you get eaten." - danniboi07
"Needless to say, it's much easier to clear a bunch of drunk kids out of your house when you're yelling GTFO and carrying a samurai sword." - DerAuslander
"Eventually, I realized it doesn't matter what art you train, what matters is the method in which you train. Training in an alive manner, under skilled and qualified instruction, is the single most important aspect of gaining martial skill. All else is window dressing." - JNP : Saying it how it is!
1/07/2012 8:16am, #34
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You don't have a clue as to what your talking about.you spread a lot of misinformation. I know Dennis for about 30 years and was in prison with he didn't terrorize anyone he acted with respect and received respect at all times. as for what you think he was in prison for your wrong. your a wanna be pice of ****. get your facts straight before you run your mouth dumb ass