Official Muaythai, Karate and SanDa Throwing, Sweeping and Tripping Thread

**Coach Josh** · Posted On: 5/18/2010 8:06am

It was just Ogoshi. Benny had an under hook and was holding the other arm tight while the other guy had a collar tie. His feet left the ground after the guy was airborne so he could land on top and add some damage to the throw. Knowing that his coach was Gene Lebell I will say with 100% certainty that it was intentional.

**Matt Phillips** · Posted On: 5/18/2010 8:08am

Originally Posted by Coach Josh

It was just Ogoshi. Benny had an under hook and was holding the other arm tight while the other guy had a collar tie.

Is this how it is done with gi on, or is this a modified vesrsion?

His feet left the ground after the guy was airborne so he could land on top and add some damage to the throw. Knowing that his coach was Gene Lebell I will say with 100% certainty that it was intentional.

Agreed :D

Now if I understand the mechanics right, this can't be done easily from the Prumb (double collar tie) because Uki is not presenting an armpit for underhook?

If that is correct, does that mean you can defend the throw by pointing to the ceiling with that arm ;) ?

**Jim_Jude** · Posted On: 5/18/2010 10:03am

Originally Posted by Coach Josh

It was just Ogoshi. Benny had an under hook and was holding the other arm tight while the other guy had a collar tie. His feet left the ground after the guy was airborne so he could land on top and add some damage to the throw. Knowing that his coach was Gene Lebell I will say with 100% certainty that it was intentional.

Yeah, I see it now. Man, that foot on the other side is hard to see, I can't tell Benny's pants from the other guy's shorts.
On a side note, I find it a bit funny that they can wail on each other for minutes & then one good throw practically puts the guy outta commission.

**Coach Josh** · Posted On: 5/18/2010 11:11am

It can be done that way with a gi but most of the time you have the sleeve. It was also a left sided throw which is the easiest way to throw a righty.

Yes a good throw can finish a fight. Instead of hitting you with a kick or punch I am going to hit you with the biggest thing in the room, the floor.

I will put money that the spinning side kick is what did the damage and the force of the throw was the icing on the cake. If you remember the fight science with Randy slamming the crash test dummy you can see the actual force that can be generated with a good throw.

WW- hip tossing from the MT clinch would not be a good technique choice. The underhook or whizzer would be a better place to do them.

**Matt Phillips** · Posted On: 5/18/2010 1:06pm

Originally Posted by Coach Josh

I will put money that the spinning side kick is what did the damage and the force of the throw was the icing on the cake.

OK,now it's my turn ;) That is spinning back kick. Benny is one of the only fighters who never throws spinning side kick. Ever.

WW- hip tossing from the MT clinch would not be a good technique choice. The underhook or whizzer would be a better place to do them.

Pretty easy to switch to underhook(s) if the other guy has inside position on the Prumb. My question is: is there enough leverage with his arms in that position?

**Torakaka** · Posted On: 5/18/2010 1:13pm

Not "MT clinch" double collar tie. The double collar tie is probably the least used clinch in muaythai because not only is it pretty easy to defend, but it really doesn't provide a lot of options for strikes or throws. Controlling an arm or shoulder is always going to be a better option for throws. The double collar tie clinch is only terribly useful against someone that isn't doing very well to defend/counter a clinch, like when someone is doubled over from damage or fatigue.

**Coach Josh** · Posted On: 5/18/2010 1:24pm

Spinning side kick the knee chambers and the leg goes out straight striking with the heel. 10+ years of TKD training says side kick. Back kicks are different more like a mule kicking side kicks have the knee facing out in my world of kicking vocabulary.

IDK what you are getting at WW. IF you are in the MT clinch and look to pummel for under hooks and throw it would be tough. If you break the clinch then pummel for under hooks would be better.

**Matt Phillips** · Posted On: 5/18/2010 2:25pm

Originally Posted by Coach Josh

Spinning side kick the knee chambers and the leg goes out straight striking with the heel. 10+ years of TKD training says side kick. Back kicks are different more like a mule kicking side kicks have the knee facing out in my world of kicking vocabulary.

G-d bless Youtube. Every once in a while the perfect video exists :)
YouTube- Benny Urquidez part3

IDK what you are getting at WW. IF you are in the MT clinch and look to pummel for under hooks and throw it would be tough. If you break the clinch then pummel for under hooks would be better.

It's not important.

**Khun Kao** · Posted On: 5/18/2010 3:10pm

Originally Posted by KidSpatula

Not "MT clinch" double collar tie. The double collar tie is probably the least used clinch in muaythai because not only is it pretty easy to defend, but it really doesn't provide a lot of options for strikes or throws. Controlling an arm or shoulder is always going to be a better option for throws. The double collar tie clinch is only terribly useful against someone that isn't doing very well to defend/counter a clinch, like when someone is doubled over from damage or fatigue.

^THIS!

I preach to my students/fighters that the double-neck tie is considered to be the grade-school version of the clinch in Thailand. Arm/shoulder/bicep control is where the real action is because you can knee, elbow, and throw from this position.

**Torakaka** · Posted On: 5/18/2010 3:22pm

Originally Posted by War Wheel

My question is: is there enough leverage with his arms in that position?

I know of one throw from the double collar tie, but it's not really a "hip throw". Your lead hand elbow goes in the armpit and you step your lead leg to the inside of their thigh (so you are thigh to thigh), you lift their armpit with your elbow and pull their head down with your rear hand twisting your upper body towards your rear leg.

It's definitely not an ideal position for throws, though.