NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT
Posted On:5/17/2010 8:35am
Style: Novice Sub Grappler
I understand how these types of toss are common in Muaythai, but I have always had trouble how they fit into the "no-over-a-part-of-your-body" rule.
'Reem did train with Yoshido, but this is something I associate with MT.
At the end of the day, many systems are going to have different names for the same stuff.
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Posted On:5/17/2010 8:41am
Style: MMA, Yoga
You're not the only one, its so complicated that nine out of ten Western judges/refs get it wrong. Some PMs i got from Khun Kao last year you might find useful:
Originally Posted by Khun Kao
You cannot perform hip throws, or anything over the back of the leg. You cannot perform a "hooking" sweep or a Judo-style reap. If you throw someone, you cannot intentionally go down with them (on top of them).
You are allowed to throw someone over the inside of your leg, providing you immediately move your leg out of the way after the throw, allowing them the chance to recover. For instance, lets say we are clinched. I can twist you towards my right, over the inside of my right thigh. As you lose your balance, I merely have to step my right leg back out of the way as you fall. What's cool about that is that you throw them over your leg, then step back to "cock" it, then kick them on the way down with the same leg.
Also, if I twist you around in such a way that causes you to lose balance, that is also legal. There is also a way to hip bump someone off their feet and twist them to the side and release them.
Originally Posted by Khun Kao
Yeah, the wording of the rules is often confusing, and it took me years to have a clear understanding of them. Basically, any type of trip or throw over the back or outside of your leg is illegal. Throwing or tripping over the inside of your thigh is legal provided you clear the leg out of the way immediately.
The rule of thumb for sweeping someones legs is that the contact surface must be your shinbone or top of the instep. You'll often hear people refer to this as the bone must initiate the contact. Back of the leg or side of the foot is, therefore, illegal. So no hooking with your leg or tripping with the inside of your foot as in a Judo reap.
Hope this helps!
Gotta love Khun Kao.
"Boxing is the art of hitting an opponent from the furthest distance away, exposing the least amount of your body while getting into position to punch with maximum leverage and not getting hit."
1% Shark is better than you.
Posted On:5/17/2010 9:00am
The best rule of thumb I've found for amateurs is do whatever you want until the ref yells at you. It has to be really blatant for them to deduct a point. Like full on hip throw where you land on them blatant. I've even gotten away with that before with only a warning.
For Coach Josh the throw I most often do and I think mechanically the closest thing to what Overeem was doing is actually Harai Tsurikomi Ashi except you use the front of your foot/shin instead of the bottom.
Posted On:5/17/2010 9:14am
War wheel, I'm really sorry because this is a topic I would love to cover but I don't know the names of any of this stuff. My first MT coach always just called them "tricks". My later coaches only called them sweeps or hip bumps but I know a ton of variations.
I could divide the ones I use regularly into 3 main schools: Sweeps, Trips and Bumps.
To me Sweeps are anything that is meant from the very beginning to knock an opponent down and typically should look like a kick except when you make contact you want to use more of a pushing energy.
Trips are the ones where you stick your foot out and sort of maneuver your opponent over it. Overeem did a trip IMO.
Bumps to me are the most opportunistic. I usually do those in the clinch when someone gets too high or takes a grip on me that turns their body into a weaker structure. Then you can just turn them into that direction and bump them with your hip.
Posted On:5/17/2010 10:07am
Gladiators Academy Lafayette, LA Style: Judo, MMA, White Trash JJ
Harai tsuri komi ashi is when your opponent is moving backwards and you sweep him in that direction. The use of shin vs. the foot is not the paramount aspect that defines the throw. The direction of the throw is what will distinguish them from one another.
Sasae is when they move forward and you wheel them over your leg/foot. Harai is when they move backwards and you wheel them over.
Harai TKA is another one that I teach but very very hard to pull off if you are not comfortable with ashi waza. Beautiful throw when you pull it off I am a huge fan of it. Most times I have seen it done it ends up looking like a belly to belly suplex without the elevation. Think of a chest to chest barrel roll.
Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.
Posted On:5/17/2010 10:08am
Thats what I get for trying to figure out the names from Judoinfo animated gifs.
Posted On:5/17/2010 11:50am
Coach Tripp was kind enough to do this analysis of the throws from this vid:
YouTube- Kung Fu Sanda Sanshou
1. Hard to say, it comes in when he is in the air, I suspect Te Guruma.
2. Harai tsurikomi ashi seems closest.
3. Te Guruma again, but without the “pull” to turn uke onto his back.
4. Koshi Waza, likely Kubi Nage.
5. Okuri Ashi Harai
6. Hiza Guruma
7. Heel Pick, huge name, I’d have to look it up
8. Next couple are simple leg picks.
9. Hard to tell, rolling Uchi Mata seems likely
10. Leg picks
11. Ippon Seoi Nage
12. De ashi Harai
13. Another high single
14. Morote Gari (double leg)
15. Leg pick into de ashi Harai
16. Hard to tell, comes in late. Looks like Kata Guruma
17. Leg pick into O uchi gari (classic Russian stuff)
18. De ashi Harai
19. Morote Gari
20. De ashi Harai
21. Attempt at Kami bassami
22. Leg grab into ko uchi gari
23. Leg grab defense with Harai goshi
24. Okuri ashi Harai
25. Te Guruma
26. High single
27. Morote Gari
29. Hiza Guruma
30. Te Guruma
31. Leg pick into Tai Otoshi/Harai (VERY dangerous and banned in Judo and Sambo)
I am very curious if their are throws from the kickboxing FCK world that do not have analogs in the Judo syllabus.
I know this one is from Judo. Name of throw?
YouTube- Benny The Jet Urquidez vs Onuki
4:18 Is that Seoi Nagi? Sorry I'm such a n00b. I'm trying to learn these names.
Posted On:5/17/2010 1:32pm
It looks like Benny used an Uchimata, or some kind of hip throw.
Do you eat breakfast?
Posted On:5/17/2010 1:47pm
Style: Kitty Pow Pow!!!
So if we're talking about judo, is this really a "striking" discussion anymore? :P Seriously, just making a list of judo throws that get used in striking doesn't really do any of us stand up folk much good. Lets try and keep this thread mostly in the realm of breaking things down so that people like me who have no idea what a tan-o-toshi is can still keep up.
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Choked out by Gene Lebell
Posted On:5/17/2010 2:26pm
Benny trained with Gene quite a bit, I suspect its a Harai Goshi.
"Out of every hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back." -- Hericletus, circa 500 BC
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