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  1. shelbydeth is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/16/2010 11:41pm


     Style: MMA

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Maaaannn Phil come round my hood I be all ELBOW STRIKES BITCHEZ. Crazy honkeys.
  2. CarlosJesena is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/16/2010 11:50pm


     Style: BJJ, TKD, Lifting+Cardio

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by shelbydeth View Post
    Maaaannn Phil come round my hood I be all ELBOW STRIKES BITCHEZ. Crazy honkeys.
    And those breakdance moves at 1:26 (:wtfgif9fr). I swear I've seen those moves in hiphop dance routines.

    ALSO. Is this Sifu Rudy Curry Jr. for real?

    YouTube- Sifu Rudy talks about his experience with Jail house rock , known today as 52 blocks.
    Last edited by CarlosJesena; 5/17/2010 12:08am at .
  3. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    5/17/2010 12:22am

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR View Post
    FWIW, while Elmore is right that Dennis Newsome only teaches within his own ethnic and cultural group, he's dead wrong in saying that other 52s teachers have the same agenda. For example, FWAPE ( http://www.fwape.com/non_member_index.php ) was set up to use the skills of the 52 Blocks to mentor (mostly fatherless) inner-city youth and get them into healthy lifestyles, away from drugs and gangs, with no reference to race.

    Newsome is a strong proponent of the "secret prison fighting art" aspect of 52s folklore. That theory suggests that the 52 Blocks were originally a fusion of English/American bare-knuckle pugilism with various African fighting styles, passed down via the prison system, but IMO Newsome is prone to presenting speculations and oral history as if they were proven facts; AFAIK there is no documentary evidence to support that theory.

    Professor Tom Green (Texas A&M University) is engaged in a long-term research project on the history of the 52 Blocks. IMO the most plausible theory traces the 52s back to the so-called Sundowners, i.e. African-American prize fighters of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, then passed down informally as an adjunct to boxing (in the streets, in gyms and in prisons) and re-emerging as an aspect of hip-hop culture in the '80s.

    All best evidence points towards the 52 Blocks being a semi-codified skill-set that has evolved informally, with multiple "styles" emerging as local or even individual specialties, comparable to street skills such as skateboarding, parkour or breakdancing. Casual researchers who miss that crucial point (as Elmore obviously has) are doomed to draw false conclusions (as he certainly did).

    With reference to a few of Elmore's own speculations:

    * in fact, slave-owners cultivated fighting skills in talented slaves, because a successful slave prize-fighter was a source of revenue and prestige
    * it was common for prisons, especially in the South during the early decades of the 20th century, to allow prisoners to train and compete in boxing
    I ordered Kevin Smith's book on Sundowners and that makes a way more plausible history for 52s than MAs system brought over from Africa. Also Prison boxing was a HUGE means of reform for cons back in the day. Sony Liston was a prime example that fight training was indeed going on in the prison. However that was on the close eyes of the gaurds and guys that caused trouble couldn't stay in the program and thus lose a lot of the privileges they got from it.

    As much as I don't like the BS of 52 Phil, once again, doesn't know what he's talking about.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  4. Rivington is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/17/2010 12:34am

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     Style: Taijiquan/Shuai-Chiao/BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Elmore is not only terrified of blacks, he hates the idea of cool people. (He's not alone.)
    Last edited by Rivington; 5/17/2010 12:37am at .
  5. Gezere is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/17/2010 12:44am

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Phil blocked me because I stated that there are videos of not only white but also hispanic students learning 52s. As usual he never likes being proven wrong.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  6. TheMightyMcClaw is offline
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    MADE OF STEEL!

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    Posted On:
    5/17/2010 1:44am

    supporting member
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Omega the Merciless View Post
    Phil is actually quite articulate. I think he missed his calling.
    He has a Dungeons and Dragons accent. Anyone who's played DND will know what I mean.
    The fool thinks himself immortal,
    If he hold back from battle;
    But old age will grant him no truce,
    Even if spears spare him.
  7. Cy Q. Faunce is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/17/2010 1:50am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Finding You

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheMightyMcClaw View Post
    He has a Dungeons and Dragons accent. Anyone who's played DND will know what I mean.
    Poncy, self-impressed, educated beyond his intelligence. Precise diction with little proper feeling or personality.
  8. Strifes is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/17/2010 2:39am


     Style: CSW BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Martial Arts in prison is bench pressing 300 pounds and shanking someone in the kidneys for not hiding your pruno. Elmore has a point (wow never thought id say that), I think people tend to fantasize and glorify violence while incarcerated because of movies.
  9. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    5/17/2010 2:53am

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Strifes View Post
    Martial Arts in prison is bench pressing 300 pounds and shanking someone in the kidneys for not hiding your pruno. Elmore has a point (wow never thought id say that), I think people tend to fantasize and glorify violence while incarcerated because of movies.
    Phil has a small point. I don't think 52 is really prison system I think it developed on the street starting with boxing then mimicking kung fu movies then brought into the prisons. There are videos of gangs in prison "training"* (including how to shank) there members but if seen by a CO that **** would get shut down therefore its more plausible that pple got "training" on the outside before they went in. Even before the new exposure you had "thugs" on the street professing to be schooled in something. The cons in my family wanted to show us how to "Knuckle Up" and it was terrible. I think 52 et al is crap but its been apart of Black culture at the very least back to the 70s. And like Rudy said most of the pple don't try to connect with African MA but all try to connect it to the streets and prison.


    *When I was in TRADOC one of our duties was to look out for new boots with gang afflictions (tattoos, signs, etc) during a Health and Welfare we came up on a "Book of Knowledge" that contained the rules but also a chart for pressure points and with instructions to learn more from the Army.
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh
  10. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/17/2010 3:13am

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     Style: Bartitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    My case is that a lot of the knee-jerk "52 doesn't exist!" argument was based on people assuming that 52 was somehow supposed to be something much more than a semi-codified form of street boxing. In other words, simultaneously buying in to the mythology and rejecting the whole phenomenon based on the myth.

    As Tom Green once said of the 52 Blocks, "the Shotokan model doesn't fit"; people (mis-)heard "martial art" and automatically assumed curriculum, gradings and the other middle/working class trappings of commodified combat training, then made the leap into denying that 52 existed in the first place because they couldn't find that sort of evidence. It's like trying to pound a square peg into a round hole.

    From everything I've seen and heard, JHR/52 is simply a nickname for a form of street boxing that gained popularity in the gang neighborhoods of Brooklyn and surrounding areas during the late 1970s; where it may have come from before that is still up in the air. Most sources agree on a common set of influences including boxing and slap-boxing, chopsockey kung-fu movies, the Nation of Gods and Earths (the Five Percent movement) and breakdancing, especially the diss moves associated with the Brooklyn rock/uprock style.

    Insofar as it was associated with young gangsters, it was used in beatdown initiations and consensual street fighting (apparently pretty much a thing of the past now); when the gangsters went to jail/juvenile detention they took 52 with them, where it was used to help establish the pecking order.

    The idea that "jail time was training time" is also an established aspect of the folklore, including heavy conditioning and weightlifting and (according to some sources) a training "game" based on a deck of cards, in which each suit/number represented a number of punches to be blocked. Incidentally, this is simply a variation on the deck of cards pushups/situps/squats workout that has been around at least since WW2.

    This game is one explanation for the "52 Blocks" name; others include a reference to the Supreme Mathematics numerology system of the Five Percenters, in which 5+2 can be read as "Power" and "Wisdom" or as "masculine perfection".

    Anyway, that's the claim; 1970s gangster street boxing that absorbed aspects of other popular cultural influences of the time and continued to evolve, organically, for some time thereafter, eventually accumulating its own urban mythology.
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