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  1. Mtripp is offline
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    Choked out by Gene Lebell

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    Posted On:
    5/14/2010 3:24pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Shime Waza in the real world

    How many people here have trained with me at clinics where I make it clear choking on the street is different than in a sporting event?

    http://cbs2chicago.com/local/cvs.sho...2.1685972.html

    My point is made....

    ...there is a flaw in the story. However, this is the advanced section, so how should we do it?
    "Out of every hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back." -- Hericletus, circa 500 BC
  2. Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs is offline
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    fist first Philosopher

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    Sanctuary of Pallas Athena (Belgium)
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    Posted On:
    5/14/2010 3:37pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Savate (LBF/SD/LC) - BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post
    How many people here have trained with me at clinics where I make it clear choking on the street is different than in a sporting event?

    http://cbs2chicago.com/local/cvs.sho...2.1685972.html

    My point is made....

    ...there is a flaw in the story. However, this is the advanced section, so how should we do it?
    The flaw is that a person has to be +/- 3 minutes unconsious of air deprivement before enough braintrauma has occured to kill a person.
    The victim could not be struggling and being strangled to death at the same time. It's coldblooded murder (intenionally or not) to keep a chokehold on from 3 minutes after the victim passed out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiujitsu77
    You know you are crazy about BJJ/Martial arts when...
    Quote Originally Posted by Humanzee
    ...your books on Kama Sutra and BJJ are interchangeable.
    Quote Originally Posted by jk55299 on Keysi Fighting Method
    It looks like this is a great fighting method if someone replaces your shampoo with superglue.
    The real deadly:
  3. DKJr is offline
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    Fasten your seat belts, and prepare for lift off

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    Posted On:
    5/14/2010 3:42pm

    supporting member
     Style: Combat Cuddling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The flaw is when he's screaming "I can't breathe, I can't breathe" he can breath.
  4. Mtripp is offline
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    Choked out by Gene Lebell

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    Posted On:
    5/14/2010 3:45pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by David Koresh Jr. View Post
    The flaw is when he's screaming "I can't breathe, I can't breathe" he can breath.
    That is the flaw in the story.

    Obviously it was held too long, that in the flaw in the actions.
    "Out of every hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back." -- Hericletus, circa 500 BC
  5. Res Judicata is offline

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    5/14/2010 3:49pm


     Style: Judo & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Perhaps it's a bit off point, but it makes an interesting compare and contrast with the story posted in another thread about the Judo brown belt who held a gunman down for seven minutes until the police arrived.

    Judo brown belt whacks mugger with a chair - No BS MMA and Martial Arts

    I'm similarly reminded of a dojo mate who works as an EMT. As part of his job he was struggling with a mentally disturbed person. He caught him in an armlock but it was useless -- he couldn't justify breaking the man's arm.
  6. DKJr is offline
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    Fasten your seat belts, and prepare for lift off

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    Posted On:
    5/14/2010 3:50pm

    supporting member
     Style: Combat Cuddling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post
    That is the flaw in the story.

    Obviously it was held too long, that in the flaw in the actions.
    Yay what do I win? Also what a jackass, just choke him out. Then establish a good solid position till the cops come.
  7. Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs is offline
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    fist first Philosopher

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    Posted On:
    5/14/2010 3:55pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Savate (LBF/SD/LC) - BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The problem is that there's a good chance that the employee has never seen the inside of a Judo Dojo or a BJJ Gym.
    There are enough "instructoral" vids of chokeholds on youtube for anyone to see. Some are good, some are not so good (understatement), but (almost) non adres the situation and the danger that using such techniques imply.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiujitsu77
    You know you are crazy about BJJ/Martial arts when...
    Quote Originally Posted by Humanzee
    ...your books on Kama Sutra and BJJ are interchangeable.
    Quote Originally Posted by jk55299 on Keysi Fighting Method
    It looks like this is a great fighting method if someone replaces your shampoo with superglue.
    The real deadly:
  8. cuatro76 is offline

    Registered Member

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    Dallas
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    Posted On:
    5/14/2010 4:29pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, the article says 3 men helped hold him down. This reminds me of an incident maybe 10 years ago on a Southwest Airlines flight where an unruly passenger was held down by several other passengers and died of asphyxiation. Maybe it was a combination of the choke hold and the other guys putting too much weight on his chest for too long?
  9. Lindz is online now

    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    5/14/2010 6:58pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by cuatro76 View Post
    Well, the article says 3 men helped hold him down. This reminds me of an incident maybe 10 years ago on a Southwest Airlines flight where an unruly passenger was held down by several other passengers and died of asphyxiation. Maybe it was a combination of the choke hold and the other guys putting too much weight on his chest for too long?
    it reminds me of robert dziekanski who got zapped and then sat on by four of Canada's finest then died of asphyxiation.
  10. It is Fake is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/14/2010 7:12pm

    staff
     Style: xingyi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by cuatro76 View Post
    Well, the article says 3 men helped hold him down. This reminds me of an incident maybe 10 years ago on a Southwest Airlines flight where an unruly passenger was held down by several other passengers and died of asphyxiation. Maybe it was a combination of the choke hold and the other guys putting too much weight on his chest for too long?
    Yeah that one doesn't fit because, there were conflicting stories from
    asphyxiation:
    http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...ssengers_x.htm
    Sometimes those efforts can be lethal. In 2000, Jonathan Burton, a passenger on a Southwest flight from Las Vegas to Salt Lake City, died after passengers and crewmembers tried to subdue him. Burton, 19, had kicked a hole in the cockpit door and became violent. An autopsy showed he suffocated. No charges were filed.
    to murder:
    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...,55721,00.html
    Others jumped up to subdue him. Women screamed; children began to cry. Eight men eventually wrestled the 6-ft., 190-lb. Burton to the floor. "It is over," a man told him, yelling obscenities. "You are not getting up." But the mob may have got carried away. Dean Harvey, who was sitting in the third row with his wife and 11-month-old daughter, says a burly man jumped repeatedly onto Burton's chest. "You've got the guy subdued, what more do you want?" Harvey says he told the man, who jumped twice more before stopping. Harvey's account has not been confirmed by airline officials or other passengers.

    Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...#ixzz0nx680LbB

    According to the police report people had their feet and other limbs on his throat.
    http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/southwest1.html
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