arm bars

[Owen]

Originally posted by J-Lau
Well there is your problem right there. When you do the keylock, you want their elbow to be as close to their waist as possible, so get the pressure on the shoulder. If the elbow is up high near their head or shoulder... it doesnt work.

There is a way to make the keylock work from inside the triangle, but its an uncommon move and Im sure you werent doing it. .

This guy could lay flat on the floor with his upper arm like an "L," and then rotate his shoulder joint so that his elbow was pointed in the entirely opposite direction. It works all the time on other people, it just didn't on him because he was entirely too flexible.

[Strong Machine]

In my school I have a couple 6 foot 135 pound kids within insane play in their shoulders.As J-Lau stated you must pull downward so their elbow goes toward their waist.
Many do the paintbrush wrong, thinking they must get ukes elbow lifted as high off the mat as possible.This wont work vs limber victims.
Instead when you get the painbrush you slide the arm along the mat .
Against very limber guys you must do this.
Say I have crosside.My hips are on his right side, my head on his left side.
I am, attacking his left arm.I keep him flat with my weight.
I slide his arm toward his waist until my right elbow is bumping into his waist.
In the rare uke, they still dont tap.
If they dont then you lift their elbow, if they STILL dont tap(ive seen it happen) I then pull my right elbow over their navel.
Ultimatly the outside of their left wrist is pulled in so it is touching their left hip.
FOR THIS TO HAPPEN THE SHOULDER*MUST* BE DISLOCATED.
It has nothing to do with the limberness of muscles and connective tissue.
It is simple mechanics.
For a shoulder to dislocate and invert there MUST be no rotater connections.

As for Jujigame, as omega states if you arch then you should get way beyond straight.
As J-Lau sez you are probably not immobilixing the upper arm enough.
ALTHOUGH...there are freaks in this world./If you get one then do what I do when you are in a position where you cant arch due to the position of your body in relation to ukes and the floor/mat/ground/wall Turn his hand so his thumb points sidewards and crank the arm the opposite direction.
You cant get your lower back muscles involved, but your two free arms will usually over power his one isolated arm.
You can also consider getting his hand underneath your armpit.
With Vale Tudo gloves on it is easier to stick the hand in there.But without gloves it can still often be done.This reallyallows for a tremendous angle to do damage.
Or just say screw it and triangle him.

[willy]

Originally posted by deus ex machina
I think omega is saying that he can crank a hypothetical arm up to 230 degrees.

actually hypothetically if you started with the juji where you both are face down on the mat i suppose you could acctually get the arm well past 270 degrees.