Klaus Schuhmacher won 3 pro fights in Thailand mid 80's???

**waxeater** · Posted On: 5/12/2010 2:05pm

Claiming professional wins in Thailand doesn't necessarily mean Raja or Lumpinee, even back then. Either way, I'm curious as to where one would gain access to twenty year old documentation regarding professional muay Thai bouts in Thailand. Since BS artists routinely claim any number of bouts in Thailand, knowing that those bouts are nearly impossible to verify, that kind of information could be very helpful in sorting out posers from the real thing.

**Hiro Protagonist** · Posted On: 5/12/2010 2:08pm

Originally Posted by Sri Hanuman

Could be a whole variety of things, but irrelevant to the thread. Unless the thread is headed for trollshido. Either way fine with me. Less things for me to do at teh end of the year. :|

The fight record itself is not really worth considering, I think.

The other claims are way more interesting, since they are clearly an attempt of profile-padding even worse than Severe.

I list those that seem more important to me here:

No BS MMA and Martial Arts - View Single Post - Klaus Schuhmacher won 3 pro fights in Thailand mid 80's???

The only thing that cannot be explained through the usual oldschool degree-padding is the claim that he trained US Special Forces.

But even there, the terms have to be watched carefully:

for his many years of teaching U.S. Special Forces, Army and Airforce personnel (fixed by me)

- That doesn't say if he trained them in- or outside of a military context.

The rest, about his Hapkido etc claims, can per se be true, in the sense that he was rewarded those ranks and titles - the point is that places like the American College of Martial Science, the Halls of Fame etc are notorious rank-for-cash factories that have been discussed many times over here already.

The same can be the case with his fight record; maybe he went to Thailand, maybe he even got a pro license.

However, there is a difference between pro levels as well, of course. You can call yourself a "pro" regardless if you fight in the UFC or, say, in "Smackgirl".

In the end, he's a typical oldschool martial artist - dozens and dozens of ranks, titles and accomplishments, and yet a skillset no bigger than Fred Ettish in his UFC fight.

**Sri Hanuman** · Posted On: 5/12/2010 2:17pm

Has someone sent Klaus an e-mail?

**MC Kwai** · Posted On: 5/12/2010 2:20pm

Originally Posted by waxeater

Claiming professional wins in Thailand doesn't necessarily mean Raja or Lumpinee, even back then. Either way, I'm curious as to where one would gain access to twenty year old documentation regarding professional muay Thai bouts in Thailand. Since BS artists routinely claim any number of bouts in Thailand, knowing that those bouts are nearly impossible to verify, that kind of information could be very helpful in sorting out posers from the real thing.

I know that Dave Kvalhelm and Ray Edler are the only two caucasian fighters widely recognized as having "pro" level fights IN Thailand before the Dutch made their mark

**Hiro Protagonist** · Posted On: 5/12/2010 2:25pm

Originally Posted by Sri Hanuman

Has someone sent Klaus an e-mail?

First, double-check it with the mods. Maybe CY can help with the military claims, and if we have HKD people here, they might help understand that part of his legend as well. So far, BTW, only ONE HKD dojo is listed for the entirety of Thailand. If Mr Schumacher was among the founders that dojo, his claim on this might also be true - though of course, the dimensions of his impact are kind of smaller than he makes one understand at his website.

**Sri Hanuman** · Posted On: 5/12/2010 2:28pm

Originally Posted by Pilgrim

First, double-check it with the mods. Maybe CY can help with the military claims, and if we have HKD people here, they might help understand that part of his legend as well. So far, BTW, only ONE HKD dojo is listed for the entirety of Thailand. If Mr Schumacher was among the founders that dojo, his claim on this might also be true - though of course, the dimensions of his impact are kind of smaller than he makes one understand at his website.

Good, now we have a lead to follow up on.
Where are they located? Do they have a site/e-mail?

**Hiro Protagonist** · Posted On: 5/12/2010 2:31pm

Originally Posted by Sri Hanuman

Hate to bother the mods, can we get a partial cull?

Seconded.

I think this is actually a very important thread, because, since BS is mainly focused on the US so far, there are many, many black sheep like Mr Schumacher out there.

If I just think of the claims the average instructor makes in my own hometown, I could fill books about all their boasted profiles and blatant lies. (Best so far: "UFC winner".)

**Sri Hanuman** · Posted On: 5/12/2010 2:33pm

He posted his certs on his page, but ufortunately they are way too small to read.
http://www.angelfire.com/ks/wmal/page46.html

He has WAY too many certs and ranks, IMO.

Since the writing is too small to be legible, I can't be of any help with the Japanese. This also makes establishing the issuing body difficult. This could have been obtained from a belt mill, it's too small and illegible to tell.

**Sri Hanuman** · Posted On: 5/12/2010 2:36pm

Also, please note this:
Very vague, no specific organizations are mentioned.

He is certified and official registered by many different international Martial Arts organizations from the U.S.A., Asia (including Nepal, India, Singapore, China, Bangladesh, Philippines, Okinawa, Japan and Korea) Europe, Central- and South America. This include very high ranks in Hap-Ki-Do, Tae-Kwon-Do, Ho-Shin-Do, Gum-Do, Tang-Soo-Do, Ju-Jitsu, Chinese Martial Arts, Okinawan Karate (Tamira-Kei-Shin-Ryu & Goju-Ryu),and high ranks in Okinawan Kobudo and Aiki-Jitsu, etc.

**Hiro Protagonist** · Posted On: 5/12/2010 2:37pm

Originally Posted by Sri Hanuman

Good, now we have a lead to follow up on.
Where are they located? Do they have a site/e-mail?

http://www.hapkido-info.net/html/thailand_links.html

- No address given, though.

The org that google gives for Hapkido in Thailand, Costa Rica etc. is Schumacher's W.I.H.K.D.F.:

Look at their page - in German - but even so, speaking volumes:

http://www.angelfire.com/ne/wihkdf/

Here is an English page:

http://www.angelfire.com/ks/wmal/page2.html