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  1. IMightBeWrong is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/15/2010 10:13am


     Style: 9mm/Judo/BJJ/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Don Gwinn View Post
    2. "Weaver stance" refers to a bunch of different ways of doing a "modified Weaver." Even people who do a "pure" Weaver very rarely do what Jack Weaver actually did; for instance, Weaver had enormous hands and preferred revolvers, and he wrapped his left hand completely around the right hand, including wrapping his left thumb over the back of his right hand. Most people not only cannot do that, but it will result in a weak grip, and with a semi-auto it'll get you a nasty crease cut across that weak hand/thumb (this happened to my wife years ago--eleven stitches.)
    I actually had to correct my dad on this grip method just the other day when he was trying my Glock 17 Gen 4. He was taught how to shoot during his time as a Marine and still didn't have this down (although he still handles an AR extremely well). Just goes to show how easy it can be to forget how to shoot properly without enough practice.
  2. 3moose1 is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/19/2010 12:48am

    Join us... or die
     Style: MCMAP, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by STB'A View Post

    or you can call moose, his nuts just dropped not to long ago.

    I rock at shooting, love making, cooking and drug dealing.

    This is my crash course, tailored for the m4, and sight setups similar to it, (ie, front sight post, and a tiny little circley thingy for the rear sight apperture) tailored towards man-shaped targets <25 yds, and bullseyes >100 yds. Some of this will carry over to any type of sight/scope/optic, and some of it won't. Some of it applies to handguns, but handguns aren't my forte so I'll let someone else handle that.

    I'll skip all the shooting position stuff, and just get to the basics:

    Hi, my name is Moose and your next period of instruction will be on slaying man sized paper at distances up to and including 25 yds, as well as shooting at a distance. By the time we're done, I'm convinced you'll feel slightly better, but probably be even more confused by the nonsense I'm typing.

    For ranges less then 25 yards, you don't need to do a whole bunch of aiming. Most weapons systems are essentially point and shoot, especially since at 25 yds and closer, men are pretty easy things to hit. Just put two into the target as fast as possible, wait a second and put one in the head. (Those are the USMC's "Failure to Stop" drills". Try to keep the two shots as close together as possible, whilst engaging quickly. There should be no pause in between shots. It sounds fucking weird, like your recoil will throw your shot off, but if you do it right, the 2nd shot will be a half inch or so above and to the left of the target.

    Shooting at distance is a bit tricky, and I'll leave out the business of BZO'ing and Zeroing your rifle, as its hard as **** to explain. Well, no, Just measure out 36 yds, and shoot a three round group. Make sure its a group, and I'll touch more on this later. Don't worry about where you hit, (But aim center) just make sure you aim CONSISTENTLY. Then, adjust your sights until your group is where you're aiming.

    At 36 yds, the trajectory of a (5.56mm) bullet is the same as at 300 yds. Its a good starting point to zero at a greater distance.

    I'm ahead of myself. Lets discuss your shoulder pocket, stockweld and eye relief. Also, suprise break.

    Shoulder pocket: put that bitch in your shoulder, like a man.

    Stockweld, your cheek being FIRMLY glued to the stock. This will keep you sight alignment/eye relief during the recoil. It should make your cheek flub all over your rifle. But hey, its your rifle. Do it up, champ.

    Eye relief. The distance between the Rear Sight Aperture and your aiming eye. Make sure that the sight is neither too big, nor too small. This is all I can give you, Eye Relief is an individual thing, trackin'?

    Surprise break is important as ****. If you anticipate recoil, you'll throw off your natural point of aim, and **** **** up. Slow and steady squeeze (or press, whatever works for you) on the trigger, and don't anticipate the hammer dropping. Just let that bitch go home, and be surprised when you rain down death and destruction to some paper, naw mean?

    Don't worry baby bird, just relax. Daddy will feed you,

    Now on to sight picture, and sight alignment.

    Sight alignment is key. It'll **** up your **** faster then your neckbeard fucked up your chances of getting laid in college.

    Good sight alignment is the TIP of the Front sight post (FSP) centered, both horizontally and vertically in the Rear Sight Aperture (RSA). Its important to note that your sights should be flipped to the peep sight ( >200 yd shooting) instead of the 02 sight (0-200 yds shooting.). Personally, i use the peep sight for anything over 100 yds.

    Now, horizontally and vertically. Centered. Check?

    You only want the tip, though. Like the prude girlfriend who wouldn't go down, you just wanna stick the tip wherever you want on the target. The tip of the FSP, centered horizontally and vertically in the RSA is where the bullet will go (if your zero'ed. Which you are, because I gave you an excellent paragraph on BZOing and zeroing. BZO stands for battle something zero. Its what your sights are set to before you qual, and before you go to combat)

    Woo, so you've mastered getting **** where it needs to be, right? **** yeah you have, you have the most bad ass marksmanship instructor ever.

    Now, sight picture. The target is clear as day, the FSP is a bit fuzzy, we're good to go, right? Wrong, girl.

    Your eye will naturally find the center of ****. I promise. Trust that bitch. Your FSP should be clear as ****, with a fuzzy target behind it. That ensures **** stays kosher through the firing process.


    Sweet, we've mastered sight alignment, and fucked sight picture like that creepy ass thing from splice fucked both of the scientists. We're fucking sweet as ****, hell yeah. Give yourself a high fuckin' five, killer. Daddy's proud.

    But we're not done yet.

    Now, natural point of aim. This is a NECESSITY for shooting, I guarantee it. The Natural point of aim is where, in yoru shooting position, the planets align and your bullet will always go here. Its magic, but you can divine its intended spot by looking through those windows we call sights.

    Now, how do we get it? Well, we get a good shooting position (covered in a later post) and we see where we naturally aim. But wait, I keep breathing! Well, ****. Stop taht ****, *****. Only women and Jews need oxygen, amirite?

    Breath in, breathe out. You take a natural respiratory pause, which is where your natural point of aim will be. See it? Your ***** ass need for oxygen isn't fucking up your shot anymore, because you found a second an a half of man in you.

    So sweet, we got everything down, but wait....

    My Natural point of aim isn't where I need it to be...Its a little high, low, left, right, etc.

    ****, son, just muscle that beastly old weapon and make it your bitch. Teach it to **** you over like that.

    After that, adjust your SHOOTING position, to adjust your Natural point of aim. DON'T muscle the weapon anywhere, let it naturally point where it will, then adjust that natural point with your whole body.


    Bam, son, we're on to shooting expert already!

    That concludes this period of instruction.

    PROOF that I'm not a completely useless poster:
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...0&postcount=58


    Quote Originally Posted by Cy Q. Faunce
    3moose1 is correct. Sig THAT, you fucker.

    Quote Originally Posted by sochin101 View Post
    I went out with a delightful young woman who was on a regimen of pills that made her taste of burned onions.
    That is not conducive to passionate cunnilingus, my friend, let me assure you.
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyOldGuy View Post
    I agree with moosey
  3. 3moose1 is offline
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    United States Marine.

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    Posted On:
    7/19/2010 12:51am

    Join us... or die
     Style: MCMAP, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Holy **** that was long. I'll let you figure out the finer details of the prone, sitting, kneeling and standing, but all good shooting positions have this in common:

    Bone on bone support
    Muscular relaxation

    plus five other things I can't remember. Those are the two most important. If your muscles are holding up the weapon, you're wrong.

    PROOF that I'm not a completely useless poster:
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...0&postcount=58


    Quote Originally Posted by Cy Q. Faunce
    3moose1 is correct. Sig THAT, you fucker.

    Quote Originally Posted by sochin101 View Post
    I went out with a delightful young woman who was on a regimen of pills that made her taste of burned onions.
    That is not conducive to passionate cunnilingus, my friend, let me assure you.
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyOldGuy View Post
    I agree with moosey
  4. tideliar is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/19/2010 9:17am


     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Moose, dude....that's fucking poetry man. I swear, if I wasn't an old **** and a foreigner, I'd be running to the nearest USMC recruiter right now.

    As it is, I'm just gonna go to the range and make that bitch my bitch.

    Thank you for a surprisingly lucid post with many lolz.
  5. 3moose1 is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/19/2010 10:10am

    Join us... or die
     Style: MCMAP, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    If your serious about shooting, I suggest you take notes on my post, perhaps cleaning up the language, as well as anything anyone will add. You won't retain it all, and we really did go over quite alot.

    PROOF that I'm not a completely useless poster:
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...0&postcount=58


    Quote Originally Posted by Cy Q. Faunce
    3moose1 is correct. Sig THAT, you fucker.

    Quote Originally Posted by sochin101 View Post
    I went out with a delightful young woman who was on a regimen of pills that made her taste of burned onions.
    That is not conducive to passionate cunnilingus, my friend, let me assure you.
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyOldGuy View Post
    I agree with moosey
  6. Rock Ape is online now
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    Watch and Shoot !

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    Posted On:
    7/19/2010 1:41pm

    staff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Moose..

    Tip from someone with operational experience. Your marksmanship (and abilities) will change once you get into the ****.

    The amount of kit you'll carry on patrol massively influences your ability to effectively and instinctively shoot. If you want some experience of that before you hit down town Sangin, wear a 50lb+ Bergen for a couple of hours as a minimum and try what you know now with that on.

    I'm assuming you must be reasonably fit at this point, I can't stress enough how important both physical and mental fitness/robustness is going to be during your tour, if you're not already, start running with weighted kit. I might be telling you to suck eggs but it's a must.

    Be safe.
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

    ~Ella Wheeler
  7. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/19/2010 1:59pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by 3moose1 View Post
    I rock at shooting, love making, cooking and drug dealing.

    This is my crash course, tailored for the m4, and sight setups similar to it, (ie, front sight post, and a tiny little circley thingy for the rear sight apperture) tailored towards man-shaped targets <25 yds, and bullseyes >100 yds. Some of this will carry over to any type of sight/scope/optic, and some of it won't. Some of it applies to handguns, but handguns aren't my forte so I'll let someone else handle that.

    I'll skip all the shooting position stuff, and just get to the basics:

    Hi, my name is Moose and your next period of instruction will be on slaying man sized paper at distances up to and including 25 yds, as well as shooting at a distance. By the time we're done, I'm convinced you'll feel slightly better, but probably be even more confused by the nonsense I'm typing.

    For ranges less then 25 yards, you don't need to do a whole bunch of aiming. Most weapons systems are essentially point and shoot, especially since at 25 yds and closer, men are pretty easy things to hit. Just put two into the target as fast as possible, wait a second and put one in the head. (Those are the USMC's "Failure to Stop" drills". Try to keep the two shots as close together as possible, whilst engaging quickly. There should be no pause in between shots. It sounds fucking weird, like your recoil will throw your shot off, but if you do it right, the 2nd shot will be a half inch or so above and to the left of the target.

    Shooting at distance is a bit tricky, and I'll leave out the business of BZO'ing and Zeroing your rifle, as its hard as **** to explain. Well, no, Just measure out 36 yds, and shoot a three round group. Make sure its a group, and I'll touch more on this later. Don't worry about where you hit, (But aim center) just make sure you aim CONSISTENTLY. Then, adjust your sights until your group is where you're aiming.

    At 36 yds, the trajectory of a (5.56mm) bullet is the same as at 300 yds. Its a good starting point to zero at a greater distance.

    I'm ahead of myself. Lets discuss your shoulder pocket, stockweld and eye relief. Also, suprise break.

    Shoulder pocket: put that bitch in your shoulder, like a man.

    Stockweld, your cheek being FIRMLY glued to the stock. This will keep you sight alignment/eye relief during the recoil. It should make your cheek flub all over your rifle. But hey, its your rifle. Do it up, champ.

    Eye relief. The distance between the Rear Sight Aperture and your aiming eye. Make sure that the sight is neither too big, nor too small. This is all I can give you, Eye Relief is an individual thing, trackin'?

    Surprise break is important as ****. If you anticipate recoil, you'll throw off your natural point of aim, and **** **** up. Slow and steady squeeze (or press, whatever works for you) on the trigger, and don't anticipate the hammer dropping. Just let that bitch go home, and be surprised when you rain down death and destruction to some paper, naw mean?

    Don't worry baby bird, just relax. Daddy will feed you,

    Now on to sight picture, and sight alignment.

    Sight alignment is key. It'll **** up your **** faster then your neckbeard fucked up your chances of getting laid in college.

    Good sight alignment is the TIP of the Front sight post (FSP) centered, both horizontally and vertically in the Rear Sight Aperture (RSA). Its important to note that your sights should be flipped to the peep sight ( >200 yd shooting) instead of the 02 sight (0-200 yds shooting.). Personally, i use the peep sight for anything over 100 yds.

    Now, horizontally and vertically. Centered. Check?

    You only want the tip, though. Like the prude girlfriend who wouldn't go down, you just wanna stick the tip wherever you want on the target. The tip of the FSP, centered horizontally and vertically in the RSA is where the bullet will go (if your zero'ed. Which you are, because I gave you an excellent paragraph on BZOing and zeroing. BZO stands for battle something zero. Its what your sights are set to before you qual, and before you go to combat)

    Woo, so you've mastered getting **** where it needs to be, right? **** yeah you have, you have the most bad ass marksmanship instructor ever.

    Now, sight picture. The target is clear as day, the FSP is a bit fuzzy, we're good to go, right? Wrong, girl.

    Your eye will naturally find the center of ****. I promise. Trust that bitch. Your FSP should be clear as ****, with a fuzzy target behind it. That ensures **** stays kosher through the firing process.


    Sweet, we've mastered sight alignment, and fucked sight picture like that creepy ass thing from splice fucked both of the scientists. We're fucking sweet as ****, hell yeah. Give yourself a high fuckin' five, killer. Daddy's proud.

    But we're not done yet.

    Now, natural point of aim. This is a NECESSITY for shooting, I guarantee it. The Natural point of aim is where, in yoru shooting position, the planets align and your bullet will always go here. Its magic, but you can divine its intended spot by looking through those windows we call sights.

    Now, how do we get it? Well, we get a good shooting position (covered in a later post) and we see where we naturally aim. But wait, I keep breathing! Well, ****. Stop taht ****, *****. Only women and Jews need oxygen, amirite?

    Breath in, breathe out. You take a natural respiratory pause, which is where your natural point of aim will be. See it? Your ***** ass need for oxygen isn't fucking up your shot anymore, because you found a second an a half of man in you.

    So sweet, we got everything down, but wait....

    My Natural point of aim isn't where I need it to be...Its a little high, low, left, right, etc.

    ****, son, just muscle that beastly old weapon and make it your bitch. Teach it to **** you over like that.

    After that, adjust your SHOOTING position, to adjust your Natural point of aim. DON'T muscle the weapon anywhere, let it naturally point where it will, then adjust that natural point with your whole body.


    Bam, son, we're on to shooting expert already!

    That concludes this period of instruction.
    Congratulations Moose, you just graduated Marine Corps Boot Camp. You now know enough to hurt yourself.

    If you really want advanced pistol shooting, I highly recommend Jerry Barnhart's school. Zero to hero in a week. Then again, I'm pretty sure he charges obscene amounts of money, so maybe not.

    As for rifle shooting, I guess it depends on what you want? Close Quarters? Long range? Are you interested in tactical or sport shooting, or just fundamentals?

    The NRA is definitely a good place to start. It's easy enough to ignore the rhetoric that you don't like, and everyone is usually nice, even if you don't agree with their political views.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
  8. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/19/2010 2:02pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hugo Stiglitz View Post
    Moose..

    Tip from someone with operational experience. Your marksmanship (and abilities) will change once you get into the ****.

    The amount of kit you'll carry on patrol massively influences your ability to effectively and instinctively shoot. If you want some experience of that before you hit down town Sangin, wear a 50lb+ Bergen for a couple of hours as a minimum and try what you know now with that on.

    I'm assuming you must be reasonably fit at this point, I can't stress enough how important both physical and mental fitness/robustness is going to be during your tour, if you're not already, start running with weighted kit. I might be telling you to suck eggs but it's a must.

    Be safe.
    This is extremely good advice for anyone deploying. CQM and LRM change a whole lot when you have to start training like you fight. Which is better than the alternative. Also, Immediate Action Drills (IADs). Know them. Love them. With full kit.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
  9. 3moose1 is offline
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    Posted On:
    7/19/2010 3:56pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: MCMAP, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hugo Stiglitz View Post
    Moose..

    Tip from someone with operational experience. Your marksmanship (and abilities) will change once you get into the ****.

    The amount of kit you'll carry on patrol massively influences your ability to effectively and instinctively shoot. If you want some experience of that before you hit down town Sangin, wear a 50lb+ Bergen for a couple of hours as a minimum and try what you know now with that on.

    I'm assuming you must be reasonably fit at this point, I can't stress enough how important both physical and mental fitness/robustness is going to be during your tour, if you're not already, start running with weighted kit. I might be telling you to suck eggs but it's a must.

    Be safe.
    To a degree, I can understand that. I've never experienced it, and have no clue what ACTUAl combat marksmanship is like, (as opposed to beginning, intermediate and advanced combat marksmanship ranges that we did. Which were stupid) but tried to tailor my post for someone looking to shoot, rather then shoot people. Thats why I said "man-shaped paper targets" and "slaying paper" etc.

    Since I found out my battalion's approx. deployment date, i've been taking physical fitness more seriously. I've never been outta shape, but will certainly take your advice when I work out. Thank you.

    I've been waiting to do pack runs, becuase for the STA indoc I'm anxiously awaiting, we run everywhere, with our packs. (From what I've heard.) Just been busy as ****, but I'll make time.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cassius View Post
    Congratulations Moose, you just graduated Marine Corps Boot Camp. You now know enough to hurt yourself.

    If you really want advanced pistol shooting, I highly recommend Jerry Barnhart's school. Zero to hero in a week. Then again, I'm pretty sure he charges obscene amounts of money, so maybe not.

    As for rifle shooting, I guess it depends on what you want? Close Quarters? Long range? Are you interested in tactical or sport shooting, or just fundamentals?

    The NRA is definitely a good place to start. It's easy enough to ignore the rhetoric that you don't like, and everyone is usually nice, even if you don't agree with their political views.

    All this stuff, I knew before I shipped. All the fancy words I picked up during rifle range, though.

    Was there anything wrong with my post? I pretty much wrote down everything that I do and know about shooting, which enabled me to kill on the rifle range. I tried to address mostly long distance shooting, which I'm much better at. The Close Quarters nonsense isn't my forte, neither is pistol shooting. I'm getting coached on the pistol nonsense, though. I guess I was just trying to give him good fundamentals for distance shooting. I feel like I did that pretty well, but you have more experience then me, so I'll defer to your wisdom.


    Only reason I even included <25 yd marksmanship is because the only ranges around me go out to that far, unless I go far as **** north to an outdoor range. I dunno what homeboy's situation is, so I thought I'd include it.


    Also, yeah, to OP, if you only have indoor ranges, ask them for targets that approximate longer distances. I've got able, b-mod and doll targets that I shoot at my range, and their size approximates 2, 3 and 500 yds.

    PROOF that I'm not a completely useless poster:
    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...0&postcount=58


    Quote Originally Posted by Cy Q. Faunce
    3moose1 is correct. Sig THAT, you fucker.

    Quote Originally Posted by sochin101 View Post
    I went out with a delightful young woman who was on a regimen of pills that made her taste of burned onions.
    That is not conducive to passionate cunnilingus, my friend, let me assure you.
    Quote Originally Posted by HappyOldGuy View Post
    I agree with moosey
  10. Cassius is online now
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    Posted On:
    7/19/2010 4:21pm

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Saying "I am an amazing shooter" after just having graduated boot camp makes you look stupid, is all.
    "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal
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