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  1. submessenger is offline
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    Transmaniacon MC

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2010 12:12am

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mutt View Post
    Dry fire. Dry fire. Dry fire. Dry fire. Dry fire. I cannot stress it enough.
    This. Admittedly, this is a little more troublesome if you're in a DA/SA frame, because you don't get the feel exactly right for every shot after the first. The principles are the same, but it's sorta like shooting two different guns at the same time. You can get used to it.

    Also, use dry-fire "rounds," a.k.a. practice ammo. The extra weight can make a big difference vs. dry-firing empty. For extra safety, I always verbalize (i.e., say out loud) "I'm loading practice ammo / I'm loading live ammo." It seems stupid the first few times, but if you get in the habit, you'll never question whether your gun is loaded.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutt View Post
    3. If you can't shoot iron sights, you can't shoot.
    Again, this. Visualize your flash-sight picture, and learn to find it quickly. Often, I drill this in the mirror, but any target will do. As an aside, I've always thought lasers were a better device for the trainer than the shooter. I've tried to use laser sights on a couple of different handguns, and found them very distracting.

    #4 - know your weapon(s). You should be familiar with every aspect of your gun, and you should be able to operate it blindfolded (imho, except the actual shooting-and-hitting-something part, unless you're Hugo Stiglitz).
  2. Don Gwinn is offline
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    BJJ wins again!

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2010 2:05am

    supporting member
     Style: Guns

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Training!

    For a beginner who just bought a 10/22, I would recommend Appleseed wholeheartedly. They'll be coming to your area sometime soon, guaranteed, and they'll teach you the traditional U.S. military "rifleman" method of precise, long-range, quick rifle shooting. (This is not necessarily what the U.S. military is spending its time learning today, because they want their guys to be able to kick down doors and win gunfights inside mud huts. But the marksmanship fundamentals it teaches you apply at almost all ranges with almost all weapons, including pistols to an extent.)

    Shootrite is a great idea, but I wouldn't start by trying to go one-on-one unless the money is burning a hole in your pocket. You will learn a LOT from a group class, including what you learn by watching the other students.

    Watch for national and world-class instructors to come to your area. Massad Ayoob no longer teaches the Lethal Force Institute himself, for instance, but the class still travels and is offered all over the U.S. LFI will put you beyond the lethal force training most big-city police officers have had. Others travel too--the Farnams, for instance.

    You might want to try a few sports. You could do USPSA and/or IDPA with those pistols, for instance.
    *********************************************
  3. tideliar is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2010 2:33pm


     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    More excellent advice. Thanks all.

    Dry firing is a kind of a problem because I don't own a gun and can't buy one till my greencard comes through. The GF has made it very clear she's not buying herself a gun for me. And I think someone even lending me one is illegal, and I wouldn't ask my friends to do something like that.

    Now time for Google to figure out some of the terms y'all have been using :)

    Oh, another question, based on what Hugo/Dave said about drawing from your centerline. I felt more comfortable in Weaver stance (like the position Hugo Stiglitz avatar is in), rather than isosceles.

    Thoughts on stances anyone? I was told that isosceles is taught more nowadays in law enforcement because the body armor doesn't protect your sides. Seems for a civvie where body armour isn't an issue, then weaver stance would be better for the smaller target profile.
  4. Mutt is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2010 2:52pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Filipino Martial Arts

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tideliar View Post

    Thoughts on stances anyone? I was told that isosceles is taught more nowadays in law enforcement because the body armor doesn't protect your sides. Seems for a civvie where body armour isn't an issue, then weaver stance would be better for the smaller target profile.
    I've learned, and will use, either stance. As long as your stance incorporates common sense (even weight distribution, nothing fucking stupid like crossed feet, etc.) then you should use the stance that you are most comfortable/shoot best with. I've known a lot of people that were nazis when it came shooting form (i.e. the bent elbow vs. full extension debate); but, as long as you're being smart you can tailor stances/grips/trigger pull/etc. to your own preference. Pick the one you are most comfortable/shoot best with for now.
  5. Rock Ape is offline
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    Watch and Shoot !

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2010 3:52pm

    staff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Listen to what this guy has to say.

    YouTube- Tactical Load
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

    ~Ella Wheeler
  6. submessenger is offline
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    Transmaniacon MC

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2010 6:54pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hugo Stiglitz View Post
    Listen to what this guy has to say.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbUgANV_yL4
    Thanks for that, Hugo - that guy is awesome. More here: http://guntalk.tv/site.php
  7. Mr. Machette is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/14/2010 8:18pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: FMA, Ego Warrior

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tideliar View Post
    More excellent advice. Thanks all.

    Dry firing is a kind of a problem because I don't own a gun and can't buy one till my greencard comes through. The GF has made it very clear she's not buying herself a gun for me. And I think someone even lending me one is illegal, and I wouldn't ask my friends to do something like that.
    If you can't own a firearm, but want to aquaint yourself with basic operation, you could always buy an airsoft pistol.

    You can practice drawing, clearing, aiming, firing, all to your hearts content! You can even shoot at tin cans in the living room. (But it makes a mess...)
  8. tideliar is offline

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2010 12:00am


     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Machette View Post
    If you can't own a firearm, but want to aquaint yourself with basic operation, you could always buy an airsoft pistol.

    You can practice drawing, clearing, aiming, firing, all to your hearts content! You can even shoot at tin cans in the living room. (But it makes a mess...)
    ...and the cats...
  9. Don Gwinn is offline
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    BJJ wins again!

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2010 8:44am

    supporting member
     Style: Guns

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    As far as stance goes, there are several deep and abiding truths to remember:

    1. If you do serious tactical training or play "practical shooting" sports with a pistol, your stance will rarely look like a picture in a textbook. Just like standup fighting, you will spend most of your time moving and in transition, and will solve many problems that can't be solved well by someone in a rigid textbook stance.

    2. "Weaver stance" refers to a bunch of different ways of doing a "modified Weaver." Even people who do a "pure" Weaver very rarely do what Jack Weaver actually did; for instance, Weaver had enormous hands and preferred revolvers, and he wrapped his left hand completely around the right hand, including wrapping his left thumb over the back of his right hand. Most people not only cannot do that, but it will result in a weak grip, and with a semi-auto it'll get you a nasty crease cut across that weak hand/thumb (this happened to my wife years ago--eleven stitches.)

    3. "Isosceles stance" refers to a bunch of ways of doing "modified isosceles." Isosceles is taught more often because of the influence of practical sport shooting--it's just plain faster and more controllable for more people than Weaver is. A "pure" Weaver requires a lot of practice to get right without thinking hard about the push/pull isometric tension concept. It should be remembered that the Weaver stance was developed for sport, just like Isosceles, and also that it was sort of the first-generation of two-handed shooting. Weaver dominated the guys doing cowboy-style "leatherslap" one-handed hip-shooting in combat matches, but later guys used the Isosceles in various versions to dominate the Weaver diehards.
    *********************************************
  10. Rock Ape is offline
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    Watch and Shoot !

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    Posted On:
    7/15/2010 9:27am

    staff
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Just a reality check on stance.

    Unless you're training every day on the finite aspects of marksmanship, when the crunch comes to discharging your fire arm at another human being, especially if this happens within your own home, when, as Clint says, you're wearing your Mickey Mouse shorts and Ho Chi Mhin flip flops, provided your lead foot is more or less pointing in the same direction as your intended target and you've grasped the basic concepts and skills of shooting your pistol, you're likely to hit the target.
    "To sin by silence when one should protest makes cowards out of men".

    ~Ella Wheeler
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