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  1. Pat Pintados is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/08/2010 11:57am


     Style: FMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Pros and Cons...

    ...of the Arts you've studied?
    No longer a nutrider, here are my assessments. This is soley based on my experience, any elaboration would be welcome.

    For me... Modern Arnis is a great stick art an effective at locking and trapping, though I've never seen much largo mano, or sparring. I'm also not a huge fan of blocking hitting the stick as opposed to the hand.

    Pekiti was technically advanced and very in depth as both a short and long range blade system, but I really had a hard time using 95% of the show business maniplulation stuff in a non compliant situation (packhand passing or segung labow with a resisting withdrawing arm). I really didn't like the empty hand "back of blade" disarms. I know Tuhon says there are no disarms, just stop cutting, then why do we even enter to corto?

    Ilustrisimo has a great blade-minded Largo game, and some realistic leverage disarms, but so far I have to see how they deal with an opponent who crashes to corto or grappling.

    Not trolling or trying to bait a flamewar, just keeping the critical eye open...
  2. jspeedy is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/08/2010 3:56pm


     Style: FMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've been taking a more objective look at Balintawak which i've been studying about 4 years. Balintawak is a good single stick art that I believe would carry over well into sport. It is mainly trained at close to medium range while standing. The main emphasis is on power strikes and building a strong defense, which has carried over well into sparring for me.

    There is a wide difference among groups i've visited and groups i've seen in video. Many of the Balintawak groups i've trained with don't spar and my group hardly spars enough. Instead I think the counter to counter drill at the core of the art is overemphasized by many practitioners. I agree the drill helps a lot with building a good defense and other skills, but at higher levels FMA practitioners should spar.

    I plan to start BJJ soon to add sojme grappling to my skillset. Within the next year I plan on testing for level6 in Balintawak which is completion of the art. When/if I start my own club I plan on sparring with the stick frequently and working applications of the counter to counter drill.
  3. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    5/09/2010 3:14am

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I basically just learned largo mano with a sparring emphasis, and maintained and worked on improving it via hitting tires, desquerdes, etc, working on footwork, and finding people willing to regularly get together to put on fencing masks and gloves and go at it with training knives and sticks. As far as styles go, I learned choy li fut (yeah, not FMA but still relevant) for like 9 years, and my weapons work included the staff, broadsword, dagger, butterfly swords, stick, spear, fan, ho, and straight sword. I gotta say that I felt my prior work on developing fast, light footwork and working targets like tires was far more useful to me then working the CLF forms, because they emphasized low stances and wide, dramatic movements that would open your body to attacks, and they didn't seem to be linked in a systematic way. It was working on a certain Chinese aesthetic instead of positioning the body by asking questions like "what position can I move most freely and explosively from?" "How can I make my strikes as hard and non-telegraphic as possible?" "How can I make my defenses as small as possible and keep me in the best position to attack or continue defending?" "How can I make my feints more convincing and appropriately timed?" "How can I best make use of my alive hand as well as the rest of the body, not just the weapon in the hand?" This is how I spend my time training with weapons now, and have mostly abandoned my traditional background since the things they taught would contradict my answers to those questions. I play with a wide range of weapons from lots of different places, mostly on the basis of being interesting to me over an affinity for a particular country. I've got some sticks and war clubs, a few fighting knives and bowies, a shilelagh (a gift from a girl I knew), a few canes and walking sticks, an African spear (for the hell of it), a claymore (I like it cause it makes my other weapons feel light), my fencing swords, and some other stuff. I've also got some training methods that are kinda my own (for example, I have a big gong with a hole in the center, and I work jabbing a weapon tip (mostly sword or spear) through the hole without touching the edges (it's like a giant game of Operation). A similar tool is the hanging metal hoop- when it's spinning, there's a very short window of opportunit to hit through the hoop, so it works fast, well timed attacks (and because it's rotating, it can also be attacked with looping attacks with the correct timing).
  4. Gulogod is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/09/2010 10:06am


     Style: Suntukaran

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I only see pros about my art because my art teaches me skills as well as discipline. I have no time to worry about "what ifs" since there's so many things to work on during practice that the mind simply stops caring.
  5. jwinch2 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/09/2010 6:44pm


     Style: Pekiti Tirsia Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I have studied two FMA systems. The first one was Modern Arnis. Great art in my view for stick and empty hand, particularly locking and stand up grappling. I was taught right away that the target for the stick is the hand or wrist so I am not sure why you might have been taught otherwise. There is an easy to understand curriculum and in general the skills stay similar from place to place when different people are teaching. My complaints are that there is a general lack of combative focus in most people involved in the art and that quality control has been horrible. I see videos posted all the time by people claiming Guro rank in Modern Arnis who can't move, can't fight, and have no flow at all. I was lucky in that we trained hard and had a very combative mindset and participated in regular sparring. Unfortunately, Remy Presas taught very little in the way of knife material so that knife skills are lacking in most Modern Arnis camps. Having said that, there are some great Arnis players out there as well. I had a great time training the art and think it has a good deal of value.

    My second and current FMA system is Inosanto-Lacoste Kali. Overall, I love the system. The knife skills, having been taken from so many great knife systems are absolutely fantastic. The stick work is the same and it is my opinion that the empty hand material is the best FMA has to offer. My only real complaints are that since Guro Dan keeps modifying the system and is constantly studying with new instructors and adding new stuff, it is really hard to get an understanding of what does and does not comprise the system. There is no established curriculum at all and skills and techniques change depending on who is teaching you and what era they studied with Guro Dan. Some of that is intentional and it is my understanding that Guro exercises more control over the apprentice and associate instructors than he does the full and senior instructors. The ranking system is needlessly confusing which isn't that big of a deal but it can be annoying at times. Finally, I have seen little to no sparring but that may not be the case elsewhere.

    I am moving soon and will unfortunately have to switch systems. I have the choice of Pekiti Tirsia Kali under the PTI organization and Inayan Eskrima. I am very interested in both and keep waffling back and forth.
  6. jspeedy is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/09/2010 11:54pm


     Style: FMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Gulogod View Post
    I only see pros about my art because my art teaches me skills as well as discipline. I have no time to worry about "what ifs" since there's so many things to work on during practice that the mind simply stops caring.
    Thats good and all if your new to MA, but sounds kind of naive for an experienced person to say. A new martial artist should learn the basics and branch out from there. It's important to recognize the skills and benefits a martial art offers but most will agree that no single art is perfect and there is always more to be learned.
  7. Gulogod is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/10/2010 9:15am


     Style: Suntukaran

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by jspeedy View Post
    Thats good and all if your new to MA, but sounds kind of naive for an experienced person to say. A new martial artist should learn the basics and branch out from there. It's important to recognize the skills and benefits a martial art offers but most will agree that no single art is perfect and there is always more to be learned.
    There's always more to be learned but one should know what he needs to learn. One can only do so much that its better to study and practice only the things that will prove beneficial to oneself. Learn as you go along but you don't have to seek what others have that you don't. There's always a trade-off when you study something new. It might be that the only way to get hold of the new thing is to let go of what you already have and that may not always mean positive.
  8. jwinch2 is offline

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    Posted On:
    6/06/2010 5:45pm


     Style: Pekiti Tirsia Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Something else I should add regarding the Inosanto-LaCoste Kali Blend is that there are quite a few instructors who studied with Guro Dan or one of his seniors only up to the point of Apprentice or Associate Instructor. This is not a big deal in and of itself but it does become a problem when those students stop staying current with Guro Dan and then feel free to promote their own students up to ranks they themselves never achieved.

    I have seen situations where an Apprentice Instructor who had not trained with Guro in many years was promoting people to Full Instructor under them. So, basically what you end up with is someone thinking they have the full system but only having it at the level of a beginning instructor. This is likely what is responsible for much of the dilution that is seen in many places and the lack of quality control. This is neither the fault of the system or Guro Dan but represents an issue with the person doing the promoting in my view.

    There actually not that many Full Instructors and even less Senior or Senior Full. As is seen all too often in martial arts, the system is great but some people go out of their way to screw it up...
    Last edited by jwinch2; 6/06/2010 5:48pm at .
  9. ShermanChin is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/02/2014 6:50pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    How does one use a stick to defend against long blades?
  10. blindside is offline

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    Posted On:
    9/04/2014 12:26pm


     Style: Pekiti-Tirsia Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ShermanChin View Post
    How does one use a stick to defend against long blades?
    You should probably start a new thread for that question, it has nothing to do with this discussion.
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