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  1. Te No Kage! is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/19/2004 12:22pm

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     Style: BJJ/Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    my aikido training has helped me more for self-defence than my karate has, but I think it's important for people to know their own bodies, ie physical limitations, also good to learn distance and timing, and sparring/fighting is good so that you won't be afraid to attack when the time comes. That is an oversimplification but I think training in something is better than not at all, at least you're a little better than when you started. But really karma is karma, if it is your time to lose, you will and if it isn't, then you won't. It's better not to worry about the outcome and more on what's presently happening. Oh and don't walk around with your head down staring at the ground, makes you a target.
    "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." -A. Lincoln

    Vote your conscience.... Vote Libertarian!
  2. LLL is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2004 12:23pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Re: Re: Re: Discussion; what, in your opinion, defines an effective self defense styl

    Originally posted by Shug

    when defending yourself on the street, your gonna get smacked in the head or elbowed/kneed in the face trying to shoot someone
    So why doesn't this happen in NHB bouts? It isn't against the rules?
  3. Shug is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2004 12:29pm


     Style: TKD

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think perhaps its the focus. In alot of matches I've seen concerning, say, UFC, most of the dominant competitors aren't really strikers, and don't really have a mindset to it. Its almost like the focus is to either bounce/throw the opponant off, grapple for a more dominant position, or reverse the effect/momentum to try and get the superior ground position... ground game seems to be the utmost focus and reaction.

    I am only taking from what I have seen, I really don't know what NHB is :P But from what I see as far as UFC, most people barely know how to throw a decent punch, their more used to "pounding" if you know what I mean. Its kinda like what Kungfools said about focus, and striking definately isn't it.
    Last edited by Shug; 2/19/2004 12:32pm at .
  4. Shug is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2004 12:31pm


     Style: TKD

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In any case, I've seen it happen.... a freind of mine who was on the wrestling team when I was in highschool got into a bit of a scuffle, tried to take the other guy down, and pretty much got knocked out >.<
  5. Shug is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2004 12:31pm


     Style: TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by Te No Kage!
    my aikido training has helped me more for self-defence than my karate has, but I think it's important for people to know their own bodies, ie physical limitations, also good to learn distance and timing, and sparring/fighting is good so that you won't be afraid to attack when the time comes. That is an oversimplification but I think training in something is better than not at all, at least you're a little better than when you started. But really karma is karma, if it is your time to lose, you will and if it isn't, then you won't. It's better not to worry about the outcome and more on what's presently happening. Oh and don't walk around with your head down staring at the ground, makes you a target.
    oh yes, definately
  6. Rigante is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2004 2:24pm


     Style: Boxing, BJJ

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Shug I am more a striker than a grappler by nature, but I used good old high school wrestling once and had the opposite of the results you mention above. He punched, I ducked grabbed him by the waist,spun him into the ground and put a hammerlock on that ended it. It sounds like your friend forgot to duck. All systems have their strengths and weakness and that is why most people cross train.
  7. Shug is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2004 2:45pm


     Style: TKD

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    nah, he ducked, the problem is that he ran his face right into the guy's knee. And I don't disagree, actually, thats a point I was trying to make, along with the fact that one can't really be prepared for everything there is to defend against.

    Trust me, I'm not pro or con anything, it just seems to me that alot of people have lost the focus in determining what is important at times regaurding self defense, its become really hard to distinguish "street" defense from sport anymore. The focuses seem to have been confused, espescially with things like Pride and UFC anymore, along with opinions floating towards what styles are particularly superior to all others.

    The thing is, I've seen alot of those fights where the guys who walk away "winners" would never have been called just that if it were just a bar room brawl. One in particular I can remember seeing, is one in which Joyce Gracie walked away winner in a fight against Kimo (I think that was his name). The thing is, he didn't really "walk" away at all, he had three broken ribs and could barely move. The other guy got up and walked away like nothing had happened. Now thats just one example, but I've frequently seen this happen.

    Disclaimer; no, I am not trying to put down BJJ, but things like that get you thinking. Joyce would never have been considered the winner of that fight otherwise, and Kimo had like NO MA training under his blet.

    Another Disclaimer; I really can't remember that dude's name.
  8. LLL is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2004 3:19pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Of course if it would have been fight to the finish, instead of submission, Kimo might not have walked away...
  9. JackHanma is offline
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    Posted On:
    2/19/2004 3:36pm


     Style: MantisShrimpFu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Shug, you are a world class moron.

    Quote:In alot of matches I've seen concerning, say, UFC, most of the dominant competitors aren't really strikers, and don't really have a mindset to it.

    I guess Mirko Cro Cop and Vitor Belfort aren't really strikers. The only fight where a knee intercepted a shot was Mirko against a 40 year-old pro-wrestler and it didn't the pro-wrestler from taking Mirko down. If a knee from Mirko can't stop a double leg, there's no way in hell you can with anything other than dumb luck.

    Quote: espescially because nobody really fights unnarmed these days)... though its something one should be prepared for to a degree.

    Over twenty-five percent of assult cases involve H2H. Check the stats and STFU. The majority of street fights invovle H2H or blunt object attacks.

    Quote: If your goal is to protect yourself in a fight as an average joe- then what everyone else said-
    pick a combatative art rather than a sportative one.

    Then why has every combative art (execpt for Krav) been an absolute failure in Vale Tudo and MMA (don't give me this rules crap)? Why did I read a study of 823 street fights (some of which involved multlples and weapons) show that wrestlers do better than trained black belt level martial artists, soilders, and cops? Another study showed that Football players did better than black belt level martial artists. How could this be? Because athletes are stronger and more aggressive than most non-athletes.

    Self-defense is what you do in the dojo, not the Street. In the street, you use common sense to avoid fighting. Don't do to bars, don't walk alone in a dark ally, etc.... Its also called tactics. You can learn tactics almost anywhere.

    In closing, let me say that since most fights involve H2H and blunt objects and full contact sport MMA conditions your body to take more damage that otherwise the average MMA Althete has a better chance than most non-competitive martial artists. Unlike, the combat martial artist, the MMA athlete doesn't train for the "Street" he trains for himself and for his love of the sport. The sport creates a body and a mindset that is better for the "Street" than endless "woofing" with guys dressed like aliens.
  10. Shug is offline

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    Posted On:
    2/19/2004 4:02pm


     Style: TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Originally posted by LLL
    Of course if it would have been fight to the finish, instead of submission, Kimo might not have walked away...
    hmmmmm, true
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