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  1. Scrapper is offline
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    Fear and bullets.

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    Posted On:
    5/07/2010 7:35am

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     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    DOmite,

    It has to do with bringing down a determined assailant before they can do the harm they are originally intending.

    Higher energy rounds do it faster and more reliably than smaller ones.

    Evidence shows that 22LR will not penetrate most adult humans enough to do more than piss them off in combat shooting applications.

    Of course, mob-style executions often use .22, because at point blank range, a .22 to the head is very clean and efficient. It doesn't leave DNA all over the crime scene.
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
  2. Mtripp is offline
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    Choked out by Gene Lebell

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    Posted On:
    5/07/2010 7:37am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Robstafarian View Post
    It doesn't exactly fit the context, but I can only think you were alluding to "No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to die."
    Actually it does, IF you find the correct quote in the book, rather than the movie. Bond and Goldfinger are discussing the firearms they carry. Bond is a bit taken aback that Goldfinger carries a .25 auto, to which Goldfinger replies:

    "I aim for the right eye and I never miss."
    "Out of every hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back." -- Hericletus, circa 500 BC
  3. Scrapper is offline
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    Fear and bullets.

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    Posted On:
    5/07/2010 7:49am

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     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by hungryjoe View Post
    I'm hoping that the Glaser safety slugs in mom's .44 special weren't a waste of money.

    Those rounds are famous for under-penetrating due to their frangible nature. They make really grisly (if shallow) wounds though.

    If your target is wearing heavy outerwear, like a biker jacket or something, the round may only produce a horrific-looking scar and some heavy bleeding in the bad guy. Against a guy in a T-shirt, they are probably fine, as long as a seriously ugly wound doesn't offend your sensibilities.

    A good jacketed hollow point from a .44 special is a much better man-stopper IMHO. .44 special from a 4" barrel will net you about 400 ft-lbs muzzle energy, and the larger cross section coupled with good expansion (generally will expand to .67 inches!!) dumps the energy quickly and deep (13 inches of ballistic gel, typically) with an enormous wound channel.

    It's a low-velocity round (700-850 fps), so you don't really have to sweat over-penetration, ricochets, or heavy backstops as much as with faster bullets.


    So yeah...you could have gone with cheaper stuff. Get her some good SPeer Gold Dot JHP's and she'll be better off. The Glasers aren't bad...they jsut don;t live up to their advertising.
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
  4. Robstafarian is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    5/07/2010 12:07pm


     Style: None

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrapper View Post
    So yeah...you could have gone with cheaper stuff. Get her some good SPeer Gold Dot JHP's and she'll be better off. The Glasers aren't bad...they jsut don;t live up to their advertising.
    Scrapper hit it dead on, and I can't believe I forgot to reply to HungryJoe (damn my love of movie quotes).

    Joe, so far I can only find one source for the 200gr. Gold Dot JHP load I'd recommend for defending oneself with a .44 Special—and it's CCI Blazer. Some people don't like them, but I think they are fine if you're not looking for reloadable brass. Here is a chart with the specs for the load in question.

    I am not an expert in terminal ballistics, blah, blah, have a nice day.
    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Plissken View Post
    cuz FastPass on Indiana Jones was like being a ghetto rock star.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiko
    But graffiti isn't a bowl of fruit...
    Quote Originally Posted by Robstafarian View Post
    Merely insulting you is not an ad hominem fallacy: them calling you an idiot would be ad hominem if they said "You are an idiot, therefore your argument is invalid."

    What is instead happening is thus:
    1. Your argument is bullshit.
    2. You keep repeating, and expanding upon, your argument.
    3. Therefore, you are an idiot.

    That isn't an ad hominem fallacy; that's inductive reasoning.
  5. hapkido_keith is offline
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    Crappler Extraordinaire

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    Posted On:
    5/08/2010 1:12pm

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    When you talk about the external and terminal ballistics in a simplified manner, it's best not to mention the F word (force) at all.

    A bullet has a certain amount of kinetic energy, which is half the product of its mass and the square of its velocity (E=1/2 mv^2).

    When a bullet hits something it "gives" a portion of that energy to the target deforming it, another portion of that energy with move the target, another portion of that energy will deform the bullet. How the energy gets divided up depends on mainly on where you hit a person, and the physical construction of the bullet. The physiological effects depend on a combination of these factors, and other factors such as surface area of the bullet, etc.

    Double the mass of the bullet and you double the energy, but double the speed of the bullet and you quadruple the energy. This is why a .223 round (55 grains (3.6 g) going 3000 feet per second) does so much more damage than a 9mm round (115 grains (7.45 g) going 1350 feet per second)

    (yes I know the projectiles will slow due to air resistance before they hit, this is a simplified model)
  6. Scrapper is offline
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    Fear and bullets.

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    Posted On:
    5/08/2010 3:24pm

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     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    THis is the problem with writing these types of articles. You gotta sorta pick a line of nit-pickiness with the physics and deal with nomenclature issues and suffer tehconsequences. OTherwise it becomes a 64-page treatise on physics and biology.
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
  7. Robstafarian is offline
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    Senior Member

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    Posted On:
    5/08/2010 3:45pm


     Style: None

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Scrapper View Post
    Otherwise it becomes a 64-page treatise on physics and biology.
    Which I would love to read, but I don't expect you to write it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Snake Plissken View Post
    cuz FastPass on Indiana Jones was like being a ghetto rock star.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiko
    But graffiti isn't a bowl of fruit...
    Quote Originally Posted by Robstafarian View Post
    Merely insulting you is not an ad hominem fallacy: them calling you an idiot would be ad hominem if they said "You are an idiot, therefore your argument is invalid."

    What is instead happening is thus:
    1. Your argument is bullshit.
    2. You keep repeating, and expanding upon, your argument.
    3. Therefore, you are an idiot.

    That isn't an ad hominem fallacy; that's inductive reasoning.
  8. panthersix is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/10/2010 8:21pm


     Style: Brawling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    7.62:ninja2: x 25 mm Tokarev - Google it, you'll like it!
    Last edited by panthersix; 5/10/2010 8:29pm at .
  9. Scrapper is offline
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    Fear and bullets.

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    Posted On:
    5/12/2010 9:10am

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     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I just cleaned up the physics stuff a a bit based on some of your astute observations. I think it is a little more technically accurate, without getting too complex.
    And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

    --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.
  10. smithwes629 is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/21/2010 3:36pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    First of all, to the author of this thread I have to say Bravo. Scrapper you are dead on in all your points. Owning a firearm that you are familiar with, can operate properly, and can physically handle is absolutely the most important consideration when selecting a handgun.

    I've always been a fan of the .45acp. It's relatively low recoil (to me anyway) and the fact that it's the ballistic equivalent of a big meaty fist make it my favorite choice. (Hulk SMASH) That said, when taking my fiancee shopping she immediately fell in love with a .38/357 revolver for it's simplicity, small grip that fit her hands, and intuitive feel. Would I rather she have a big nasty round to defend herself with? Absolutely. But a .38 is a round she feels confident shooting, and as you pointed out, big rounds that miss really don't matter.

    One thing I did want to bring up is the benefits of a round not exiting it's target. That means all of the energy from that round is transferred to the bad guy. This is where bad guys tend to be knocked over by what hit them. That's not a bad thing either.

    Again, awesome article man.
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