How do you define martial arts?

[Styygens]

That is HungKungFu's Law, not to be confused with the Happeh Hypothesis, which asserts that the chance of triangles being brought up in a martial arts conversation is dependent upon each participant's MMPI scores.

LOL.

I tripped a threshold question on an MMPI once: "Sometimes peculiar things happen to me."

I had to explain I worked in big box retail management. After telling a few choice customer incident stories, I was told, "If you didn't find those things peculiar I'd be concerned."

Clean bill of health!

But I digress...

[mrblackmagic]

perhaps I am mistaken but didnt the western MA develop as a means of training troops and keeping them fit when they weren't in battle?

There is also a report on here somewhere that said the chinese used to all do dirty fighting by pulling each others long hair.. honour and such are not linked to fighting, in fact they are arguably detrimental to it

You meant honor as in good sportsmanship. I thought you meant honor as in the modern sense of not walking around and starting **** with random people because you are supposed to use your skills responsibly.

You are right. The warrior's code is historical fiction.

[Styygens]

You are right. The warrior's code is historical fiction.

Perhaps "article of convenience" would be a better description?

[mrblackmagic]

Perhaps "article of convenience" would be a better description?

You're an optimist.

[Styygens]

I don't know... Saladin had a pretty good reputation. But there's no denying he had limits. He beheaded all of the members of the military orders after the Battle of Hattin.

On the lower level... There's something to the theory that manners and etiquette developed as a social defense against aggression. The "an armed society is a polite society" idea...

I wouldn't disagree with you that honor/chivalry/bushido/fill-in-warrior code was described more in the breach than in the keeping. Hence "article of convenience" -- you might choose the honorable path if it gains you something. Or you might appear to choose the honorable course of action while employing other methods... Or you might disregard "honor" all together if you think you can emerge victorious and write history on the other side.

I don't think you're wrong, I just think there's more subtlety to the concept.