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  1. Pat Pintados is offline

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    Apr 2010
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    Kanaduh
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    Posted On:
    5/04/2010 1:01am


     Style: FMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Snake Clinching?

    We've been working this technique I used in a past altercation at the bar against a way bigger guy. I call a snake "clinch" because it traps and clinches in the arm off of what starts as pretty much a snake disarm. The single arm hooks over and basically locks the trapped hand in place while the other hand is open to strike or armbar or whatever. It works on the inside and outside lines, can lead into Puter Kapala type dragouts, knees, etc, and is really useful for moving and controlling an opponent.

    Here at :44
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJHngjufUNo

    Here at 1:48
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ9qQ...eature=related

    Is this what some people call an "Overhook Clinch"?
  2. Conde Koma is offline
    Conde Koma's Avatar

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    Oakland, CA (East Bay Area)
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    Posted On:
    5/04/2010 3:12am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo,MT,Boxing,BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    overhooks tend to trap at the elbow or above, although i suppose anything where your arm goes over their's can be called such. you don't have the luxury of keeping their wrist pinned if they don't have a stick, though, since in my experience it's much easier to drag an empty hand out.
  3. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Nov 2012
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    San Diego
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    Posted On:
    5/05/2010 2:12am

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A park ranger where I used to train with Chickenbeakfist showed us this overhook in regard to knife fighting. He trained in the Apache knife stuff. They use the overhook because they train with fake blood on their arms and you can't really control the arm by grabbing the wrist or forearm because they get really slippery (I've never tried this personally). The weakness seems to be that if you trap higher than the elbow (which you may revert to from grappling experience) they can flail their arm into your back. When I would get wrapped up in knife sparring, I would try to shoot my arm all the way through so I could make use of that. With a rigid trainer, I could pressure the lower back with the point so their posture would fold back a little, then I could fit my head under their chin and push up high as I pull the knife and their lower back towards me to break their posture and take them down (you can do this with a grapevine but it's not all the way necessary). Use caution though, because they will be falling onto the knife and if the pommel braces against the ground, all their weight (and possibly yours if you go down with them on purpose or accident) will be impaled on the trainer (with a sharp knife, this would surely impale them up to the handle). From a reverse grip that's overhooked, you can shoot the arm through and use the point to pressure their face or front of the neck into a similar sort of takedown (or just attack them with the blade). When doing some slow motion unchoreographed stuff, I ended up in this position with the point on the neck, then used a headbutt to hit the pommel like a hammer.
  4. Ryno is offline

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    Seattle (Ballard), WA
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    Posted On:
    5/05/2010 4:23pm


     Style: FMA, Jujutsu/Judo/SAMBO

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Overwrap (overhook) or whizzer would be the most common grappling term for that. It is ideally above the elbow, as if it is down at the hand people can just rip free. You can only get semi-reliable control below the elbow if people are holding something in their hand, i.e. stick or whatnot.

    This is a preferred grip for many grapplers, myself included. If I get a deep overwrap/whizzer, I'll toss you in 0.3 seconds. To be honest, I'd probably prefer to throw from this position even if I did have a stick. Trying to maintain that control and land strikes can be tough from here. And if he's savvy, he'll press for a full Greco-style tie up to neutralize my free weapon anyway. Or he'll just start spazzing, which would affect my targeting for strikes.
  5. ojgsxr6 is offline

    Dorkus Malorkus

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    Jul 2004
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    Queens, NY
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    Posted On:
    5/05/2010 7:49pm

    supporting member
     Style: Boxing/BJJudo/Crossfit

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I know it doesn't seem feasible from the videos in the OP, but would it be better to get a hand on the bad guy's weapon side wrist?
  6. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Nov 2012
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    San Diego
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    Posted On:
    5/06/2010 12:09am

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by ojgsxr6 View Post
    I know it doesn't seem feasible from the videos in the OP, but would it be better to get a hand on the bad guy's weapon side wrist?
    Like I mentioned above, the Apache knife people don't like to rely on hand to wrist because it may be slippery (blood, sweat, water, beer, whatever) and a violently flailing person will be hard to grab and control. If you can get the wrist grabbed though, there's some things you can do from there.

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