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  1. battlefields is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/21/2010 11:12pm

    forum leader
     Style: BJJ/ MMA/ MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Kelly McCann- questions

    I picked up the latest (two to three month old to everyone else) Ultimate MMA magazine for those times at work when I haven't access to the interwebs and don't want to sit at my desk (lunch). I read several publications per month, cover to cover, mainly in the hope of occasioning upon some tasty morsel of insight among a feast of faeces. Today I found what could be described as a tasty morsel of faeces (without being aware of a literal equivalent).

    Kelly McCann's Crucible High- Risk Environment Training series published by Paladin Press ( paladin-press.com ).

    I did a search and came up with one thread that mentioned Kelly McCann as a trainer of some Black Belt Magazine journalist who was under investigation here at one stage, but nothing else. If anyone knows of a thread, please direct me to it with obligatory "your google fu stinks" remarks.

    Supposedly this guy is Black Belt Magazines 2008 Instructor of the Year, obviously the most prestigious title there is regarding martial arts. The advertisement proclaims his "counter grappling program uses combat-proven techniques that will beat any MMA expert you'll find on the street" (their emphasis).

    The reason why I started the thread is the picture on the advertisement is clearly misleading. There is a tattooed fat man driving his thumb/ performing a "shredder"/ straight eye gouging (they have blurred it slightly to make it look real) while in a triangle choke (discerned from the positioning of the visible leg) of another man on the bottom, but doing it using the hand on the arm not trapped by the triangle.

    Firstly, with my limited ground work knowledge, I know there is no way an "MMA expert" would allow this to happen. It is remedial at best, with the triangle choke control of the attackers upper body you should be able to move away from that arm with ease, letting him get his fingers anywhere near your face is the work of novice. Second, the moment some fuckwit aims for my eyes while they are in my triangle, I'm breaking individual fingers while choking the bitch and singing Kumbaya, emphasising the "ya" with each individual digit break. Third, he calls his sixth volume "Ground Kem-ba-tivz", full stop.

    He teams up with John Garman for "Combative Conditioning- Physical and Mental Conditioning for Violent Encounters", where "John Garman demonstrates how to get striking power and muscular endurance to survive violent situations" (their emphasis).

    Now far be it from me to call possible Bullshido on anyone without the appropriate information, if the coughing fit I'm about to start sounds like I am it is totally unintentional. As there is no website provided, does anyone have any appropriate information?

    Has anyone else seen this ad?

    Has anyone got any more information on this guy?

    Anyone trained with him?

    Am I way out of line and this guy is for real, providing teh r34l anti-grapple, or "counter-grapple"? If so, the individual DVD's in the series are 49.95, and with at least 6 in the series, three hundred bucks is chumppppppp change. You can even get 10% off, but you need the code only I have, muahahaha... *coughing fit sounding strangely like I'm saying something but it is totally unintentional*.
  2. Lysol is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/22/2010 12:01am


     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    He is obviously the real deal, especially with his hardcore techniques that'll stop any grappler cold in their tracks. This is why every UFC fighter trains with him. This is also why no one in the UFC uses jiu jitsu.
  3. Uncle Skippy is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/22/2010 12:01am

    Business Class Supporting Member
      Style: BJJ, MT, TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by battlefields View Post
    There is a tattooed fat man driving his thumb/ performing a "shredder"/ straight eye gouging (they have blurred it slightly to make it look real) while in a triangle choke (discerned from the positioning of the visible leg) of another man on the bottom, but doing it using the hand on the arm not trapped by the triangle.
    If he is using the 'free' arm to reach and go for the eyes, then he is *helping* the person on bottom cut the angle (make it tighter) to finish the choke .

    And he is feeding an arm bar (arm press).

    And he forgets that the person on bottom has a free arm to deal with it (other arm is on the head).

    Sounds like self-defeating/asphyxiation grappling.

    Sounds like standard 'counter-grappling' mumbo jumbo.

    Ugh.
  4. tao.jonez is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/22/2010 9:32am


     Style: JKD, Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    J Kelly McCann has published books under the pseudonym "Jim Grover'. You'll probably have better luck with your google fu using that name.
    The Wiki says:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Grover_(martial_arts)

    Black Belt Magazine article:
    http://beta.asoundstrategy.com/sitem.../BBIPMCweb.pdf

    He's got a lot of stuff published:
    http://www.kellymccanncombatives.com...=314&priorId=0

    He's also referenced a lot by the combatives guys - he's in their forewards, referenced in reviews, etc. I can't speak to the legitimacy of the guy, but maybe this will help you get started if you want to begin.
  5. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    4/22/2010 9:49am

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Someone gave me a copy of his "Inside the Crucible" DVDs. Honestly I haven't really watched them all the way through, but they seem pretty good. It's about using the handgun in self defense.
  6. battlefields is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/22/2010 10:07am

    forum leader
     Style: BJJ/ MMA/ MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CodosDePiedra View Post
    It's about using the handgun in self defense.
    This made me chuckle a little.

    Okay, from what I can gather his weapons training seems legit but I'm an Australian, carrying a blade is a jail term offense in some circumstances, a gun more so. My weapon knowledge, although exceeding my average countrymen (except those from the country), is of no assistance in this area.

    There seems to be an common RBSD approach to his articles and advertisements. Lots of training LEOs and utilizing the eye gouge, surprise elbow, etc. I won't comment on that either.

    I might email them tomorrow and see if I can get a copy of the "counter grapple" for review.
  7. Styygens is online now
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    Posted On:
    4/22/2010 12:07pm


     Style: BBT/BJJ/CJKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    McCann recently became a regular columnist for Black Belt Magazine; apparently taking over the column inches formerly occupied by Jim Wagner. I read his most recent combatives book on the recommendation of a friend who has trained with McCann. I found the book to be pretty sensible.

    I suspect the ad copy about taking on and taking out any MMA fighter is pretty standard "puffery."

    I can link you to some of the material Black Belt Magazine has put online about him... but keep the bias in mind -- they did just hire him.

    http://www.blackbeltmag.com/archives/628
    There are video links off this biography link.

    And this is an old article about his training facility
    http://www.blackbeltmag.com/archives/140

    He has a number of videos on YouTube under both his own name and the Jim Grover pseudonym. From one, you can link to others.

    Here's one that includes a knife defense (always a good starting point for a BS check):
    YouTube- Jim Grover's Situational Self-Offense

    That should give you some idea of what he's teaching. I can't speak to his resume, as I have not investigated it.
  8. Uncle Skippy is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/22/2010 12:42pm

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      Style: BJJ, MT, TKD

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Styygens View Post
    Here's one that includes a knife defense (always a good starting point for a BS check):
    YouTube- Jim Grover's Situational Self-Offense

    That should give you some idea of what he's teaching. I can't speak to his resume, as I have not investigated it.
    He isn't advocating a direct disarm (take the knife) and wrestling match which is good.

    I'm curious about finding videos on his counter-grappling to see if the ad contorted it. That triangle 'counter' mentioned above just isn't good.
  9. Nohbody is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/22/2010 1:10pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Supposedly he was, among other things, in SOTG (special operations training group) in the Marine Corps. Coming from the Marines myself, I might be biased due to that assertion.
  10. tao.jonez is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/22/2010 1:24pm


     Style: JKD, Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    In the 5 min vid clip I didn't see anything that raised red flags. The triangle thing does sound stupid, but I can't see the ad for context.

    From the vid, I like how he defines "disarm" not as taking a knife away, but removing the assailants ability to use the weapon.

    Also, from the little Kali I've been exposed to, this knife counter looks & sounds a lot like FMA. His treatment of the angles of attack, low/high counterattacks, inside/outside knife range, cover and elbow tactic are all reminescent of what I have been shown.
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