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  1. maofas is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/27/2010 7:59pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kenkojuku Karate, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Well, I like how Sambosteve wrapped up the knife close against his body, locking it in tight unlike everyone else. That's what I believe is best to do in general, but this isn't my forte so meh!
  2. Hesperus is offline
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    it's all vanity

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    Posted On:
    4/27/2010 10:02pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kano-Gracie

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by maofas View Post
    no-**** no-shoes no-service
    My kinda establishment.
  3. maofas is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/28/2010 1:45am

    Join us... or die
     Style: Kenkojuku Karate, Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yah, only the highest class for me!
  4. Nefron is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/28/2010 4:51am


     

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It would be awesome to have Steve do a seminar in Belgrade again. I didn't know about the first one.
  5. Mtripp is online now
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    Choked out by Gene Lebell

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    Posted On:
    4/28/2010 5:58am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Hmmm.... someone needs to eat a bran muffin.

    <<<So instead of karate being synonymous with shitty techniques you are saying TMA = shitty techniques. Wrong.>>>>

    I never said that. What I said, and will say again is 1) Karate blocks are NOT blocks. 2) Karate blocks do NOT work against punches thrown by anyone who does not go to the same school as you. 3) Attempting to Karate block a knife attack is a very bad idea.

    If you wish to debate one of those please do.

    <<<There's a clown TKD teacher downtown (logan ut) who also teaches JUDO, it says on the window in big letters. He sucks and isn't belted or certified (big disappointment to the BJJ guys who went down to train with a "Judo Black Belt") but from now on he proves that Judo sucks.>>>

    I reject your premise and your fatuous attempt to make a connection here. He CLAIMS to teach Judo. You yourself say he is neither belted or certified. As such he is no different than any other Bullshido Artist (See Matthew Morton.) Perhaps you can tell me what this has to do with Karate Blocking a knife attack?
    "Out of every hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back." -- Hericletus, circa 500 BC
  6. iopyud is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/28/2010 7:34am


     Style: MT/Ex-Judo NO SPRAWL?!

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Kay. OP here. Been gone for like a day and here I have a 4 page topic after being moderatiowned (Sorry about that, mods).

    As for most "anti weapon based training", the main problem I see here is the choreographed BS. I want free sparring.

    Maofas' story pretty much clarified what I wanted to say.
    Another thing about wrist grabs is that if the attacker flicked his wrist, I'd probably get cut.

    Now, look at the vid posted earlier about the RUSSIAN KNIFE FIGHT.
    YouTube- Real life army knife fight

    On what looks like actual sparring footages: The primary defense is distance. It's like fencing.

    On a semi-related note: I see another problem about these ANTIKNIFE-DO exercises. We used to fool around in Judo with this, the problem I see is that the attackers often subconsciously cooperate and lose their aggressiveness cuz they're thinking they NEED to be countered.

    Oh here, some Filipinos (KNIFE FIGHT OMG): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY1kpFRCTvg&feature=related

    Translation: They were fighting over a stolen shirt or something.
    The naked guy who was 'stabbed' has wound on his elbow and waist. His sister moved between them and caught some of the stabs.

    The footage blurred the actual moment of stabbing but the boy moved away. He's walking around with a wound on the waist and elbow. Doesn't look fatal, do you think it's thanks to his moving around?

    Could he have avoided the wound IF he was trained in some sort of martial footwork?

    Could he have pwned t3h other guy if he grabbed his wrist?

    If it was me, after hitting the other guy with the stick, I'd be like... SHORYUKEN!!!

    Hopefully, with the second vid, we'll have a context to base our discussion now. Sorry if I couldn't provide anything like that earlier.
    Getting mugged isn't out of the discussion but please be reminded that it's a different story.

    And also note that the Russian KNYFE FYTE looks worlds different to the thugs in the 2nd vid so, my argument can be invalid.
    Last edited by iopyud; 4/28/2010 8:07am at .
  7. gregaquaman is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/28/2010 8:26am

    Join us... or die
     Style: mma /boxing/muai thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    when I origionally came up with the idae that karate style blocking could be better than sport style blocking I really wasnt trying to put up any paticular style of block but comparing putting my arm in the path of theirs rather than covering.
    For knife defence this still makes sense to me.

    I have also played with rubber knives in drills and sparing and have even had the ocasional real knife/bottle/stick/muffler waved at me angrily.
    I have also went though a period of work where workmates would take it upon themselves to lie in wait and decend on me with numbers and rubber knives at random intervels when I wasnt expecting it.

    I have tried to look up where Karate blocks are not blocks and cannot find a reference to it so if you can help me with that I would be grateful.

    That Karate blocks just dont work at all. I dont see that either. I will say they are not very good for boxing style punches thrown in combination but are efective against larger looping punches which I notice are coming back into vogue. And even if less likley to stop a punch more likley to stop a knife than covering up.

    Finally blocking vs grabbing. If you can grab, good. If you can grab and hit, better. But I have found though all my rubber knife play that I just cannot catch the arm all the time and somtimes need to put something in the way of the strike to give myself a bit of breathing room and so include the karate style block as part of my knife defence package.

    the issue with the block is that you expose your arm to a cut and the other guy can keep stabbing untill he gets you but I havn't found a better way to cunter this unarmed
  8. Mtripp is online now
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    Choked out by Gene Lebell

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    Posted On:
    4/28/2010 8:58am

    supporting member
     Style: Judo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Lets try this a different way....

    1. Karate Blocks are NOT blocks.

    Might I suggest you look up some You Tube Video of Olympic TKD matches. I want you to notice the total lack of anything that even looks like a TKD Block. The second we add full speed attacks that are going to connect you quickly see the truth. NO WHERE ELSE do you see those blocks being used against punches. A wrestlers double leg takedown is EXACTLY the same in MMA/Judo/Sambo et al. Now, we can only conclude one of two things. The "blocks" are total bull crap handed down to be bull crap; or they have another context. Now look up the "two handed augmented block" usually done with a step into a cross legged position. That movement is a classic technique used to break free from a two handed lapel grab. It is even in the Gracie Combatives program. From there it is very easy to see that the "blocks" were actually ways to get a persons hands off of you, while positioning yourself for a counter attack.

    I also suggest you get your hands on this: Amazon.com: Zen Shaolin Karate (9780804819183): Nathan Johnson: Books

    The truth about kata is in there.

    When you have checked that out I will continue.....
    "Out of every hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back." -- Hericletus, circa 500 BC
  9. Gezere is offline
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    My guns bigger than Scrapper's!

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    Posted On:
    4/28/2010 9:00am

    supporting member
     Style: Kakutogi

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    From my own personal knife mugging incident my Judo training help a lot more than my Karate training did. Considering that in Judo we very rarely did any weapons work it says a lot. We did plenty of weapon defense in karate but sadly neither of my attackers attacked the way we did in class. In Judo you get used to grabbing pple who don't want to be grabbed (gripfighting). That paid of huge because my first instinct after realizing I was stabbed was to get control of the knife arm which I did quickly.
    ______
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    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
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  10. patfromlogan is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/28/2010 10:09am

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     Style: Kyokushinkai / Kajukenbo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtripp View Post
    Hmmm.... someone needs to eat a bran muffin.

    <<<So instead of karate being synonymous with shitty techniques you are saying TMA = shitty techniques. Wrong.>>>>

    I never said that. What I said, and will say again is 1) Karate blocks are NOT blocks. 2) Karate blocks do NOT work against punches thrown by anyone who does not go to the same school as you. 3) Attempting to Karate block a knife attack is a very bad idea.

    If you wish to debate one of those please do.

    <<<There's a clown TKD teacher downtown (logan ut) who also teaches JUDO, it says on the window in big letters. He sucks and isn't belted or certified (big disappointment to the BJJ guys who went down to train with a "Judo Black Belt") but from now on he proves that Judo sucks.>>>

    I reject your premise and your fatuous attempt to make a connection here. He CLAIMS to teach Judo. You yourself say he is neither belted or certified. As such he is no different than any other Bullshido Artist (See Matthew Morton.) Perhaps you can tell me what this has to do with Karate Blocking a knife attack?
    Uh, Mtripp, I was actually talking to the poster (edit: Prince Vlad who lists Krav M as his style) who reported that he found out that his TMA was unrealistic when he rubber knife fought. I was pointing out that his TMA was shitty TMA. My Hawaiian Kempo, Kyokushin, Kosho Shorie Ryu Kempo, and Chiroku Karate (and I've even some Judo and JJ and BJJ!) had and have training that includes the rubber knife. Personally I think a large butter type knife, or sheathed bowie type knife, is way better - very convincing hardness bruising you in the ribs; you KNOW that you are "dead." I've never done the magic marker thing, but I want to.

    In the Judo bs example perhaps I was not clear - I was using that as an example comparing the poster (Vlad) who claimed TMA sucked. Yes some suck - however in any legit TMA the instructor would NEVER claim to teach anything in which they weren't qualified. That is what drove me nuts - I was hurt by some idiot bb (rotator) because he really didn't know what he was doing. In TMA like Kyokushin, the instructor wouldn't dream of trying to teach a technique s/he didn't know inside and out.

    But I will debate "karate blocks." Muchimi. Sticky hands. Circular blocks. In Kyokushin we were taught to use sticky hands, not stiff chugga chugga one two three, one two three. We were taught to pull the uke inward or outward or downward etc, often followed by something like a knee to the face or chicken wing type control moves.

    And I don't claim that any style is better at knife defense - I think the techniques are similar and being trained live is what matters.

    And I don't need a bran muffin, perhaps a warm enema and a hug?
    Last edited by patfromlogan; 4/28/2010 10:22am at .
    "Preparing mentally, the most important thing is, if you aren't doing it for the love of it, then don't do it." - Benny Urquidez
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