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  1. PhoenixEyePunch is offline

    Featherweight

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    Apr 2010
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    Posted On:
    4/29/2010 11:38am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ noob, MT noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Seduced by Wing Chun

    When I first came across Wing Chun as a teenager I was amazed. It seemed so much more legit than your average American Karate school, with hundreds of years of tradition, and a real authentic feel (the school in my area was run by a legitimate Chinese instructor who has been involved in the art since 1960, so the authenticity was genuine in this case).

    It really appealed to my intellectual nature. All the talk about centerline theory, trapping, economy of motion, redirection of force, it all seemed to make sense to me on a theoretical level. There was no one flying through the air, screaming while trying to kick someone on the face. It was understated, subdued, and seemed really badass because of it. It felt like the thinking man's martial art, and I loved it. The trapping, simultaneous block and attack.... I really WANTED it to work, and the idea of sneaky, lightning fast deflection and having your opponent feel his blow subtly shift direction and then suddenly be staring at your fist in his face... it was a very attractive concept and appealed to me greatly. After some time I could tell that against an opponent with any real strength or speed whatsoever, it would be nearly impossible to actually pull any of these block/attacks off, but I still wanted it to work. A real, fast punch thrown and snapped back like a normal fighter would do makes the trapping and counterattack very difficult to pull off and impractical in the real world, and in the back of my mind I knew it.

    What initially made me start doubting the art was the fact that I felt like the stance was totally unnatural and served no purpose. The goat stance that the forms are done in is uncomfortable, unweidly, and totally without any positive benefit in any way. I would be told that someone very good at the stance couldn't be pushed over in it, which was obviously total horseshit. A solid shove to the chest will make almost any Wing Chun practitioner topple backwards. I began thinking to myself, if the stance is useless, what else is wrong in the system? When I watched Muay Thai guys or even western boxers, I would look at their footwork and consider how much more sense it made than Wing Chun.

    It was a painful event, when I finally stopped thinking of Wing Chun as a superior fighting form with sound, scientific principles that would reward the dedicated practitioner with the ability to defend against larger, stronger opponents. I could no longer fool myself. The very intellectual nature that initially attracted me to Wing Chun was what forced me to eventually understand its shortcomings and move on. I'll probably always have a soft spot in my heart for it, but I'll be moving on to better, more useful things.
  2. BackFistMonkey is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/29/2010 11:54am

    supporting member
     Style: Recovery-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What are you thinking of trying next ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi108 View Post
    Nuke a unborn gay whale for Christ.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994
  3. PhoenixEyePunch is offline

    Featherweight

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    Posted On:
    4/29/2010 12:00pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ noob, MT noob

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Backfistmonkey View Post
    What are you thinking of trying next ?
    I recently moved to Las Vegas, and I'm pretty sure I'll try some BJJ. I have favorable opinions of BJJ, Judo, Muay Thai, and western Boxing, so I guess it really comes down to finding the best gym in my area. There are some really good BJJ gyms around here, I haven't looked into gyms for any of the other disciplines.
  4. BackFistMonkey is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/29/2010 12:06pm

    supporting member
     Style: Recovery-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixEyePunch View Post
    I recently moved to Las Vegas, and I'm pretty sure I'll try some BJJ. I have favorable opinions of BJJ, Judo, Muay Thai, and western Boxing, so I guess it really comes down to finding the best gym in my area. There are some really good BJJ gyms around here, I haven't looked into gyms for any of the other disciplines.
    You may want to consider taking some time to clean up your hands and learning different approaches to kicking, head movement, and foot work with a solid striking art because I doubt you have picked up more contrary habits in your ground game than in your striking.

    Just something to think about.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi108 View Post
    Nuke a unborn gay whale for Christ.
    I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out.
    BILL HICKS,
    1961-1994
  5. M1K3 is offline
    M1K3's Avatar

    Senior Member

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    Posted On:
    4/29/2010 12:10pm


     Style: submission grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Don't listen to him. Come over to the dark side. With BJJ you don't need no stinking strikes, unless of course the person your fighting knows what there doing but what are the chances of that happening?
  6. wizwar31 is offline

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    CA
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    Posted On:
    4/29/2010 1:14pm


     Style: Judo, MT, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by M1K3 View Post
    Don't listen to him. Come over to the dark side. With BJJ you don't need no stinking strikes, unless of course the person your fighting knows what there doing but what are the chances of that happening?
    yeah dont worry about it! you can always just pak sau and chain punch them in the face! But seriously, i understand where you're coming from. I too, was seduced by wing chun in a dark wooden room (i personally blame that movie "Ip Man"). Luckily for me, my lack of funds and ADHD allowed me to leave after a month!
  7. tao.jonez is offline
    tao.jonez's Avatar

    Ninja Fruit

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    Feb 2009
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    NC
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    2,055

    Posted On:
    4/29/2010 1:34pm


     Style: JKD, Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I'm a bit of an oddball in that I like some Chunnery used outside its normal applications. In gi-grappling for example I use bong sau, lop sau, type movements to get to the collar or neck. I use some basic trapping when hand and grip fighting. It's not really T3h Chun, but the principals are still there.

    I love to sprinkle in some wing chun stuff when I'm boxing, too. People typically don't know what to do with it (simple traps, lopsau then jab, etc.) If they have a clue how to box well, the chun is pretty useless, but it's sure fun to tell people that they just got tagged via chunnery.

    Take your time making a choice - visit some classes and take a few free lessons. You'll find something that appeals to you and that works. And try to find a way that you can apply your knowledge to something new. Hopefully you'll realize that your Wing Chun isn't completely useless; rather that it's mostly useless.
  8. Southpaw is offline
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    Light Heavyweight

    Join Date
    Dec 2002
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    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    2,907

    Posted On:
    4/29/2010 2:02pm

    supporting member
     Style: BJJ, Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    OP:

    Curious how long you trained wing chun and where?
  9. Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs is offline
    Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs's Avatar

    fist first Philosopher

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    Jan 2008
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    Sanctuary of Pallas Athena (Belgium)
    Posts
    2,653

    Posted On:
    4/29/2010 2:14pm

    Join us... or die
     Style: Savate (LBF/SD/LC) - BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixEyePunch View Post
    I recently moved to Las Vegas, and I'm pretty sure I'll try some BJJ. I have favorable opinions of BJJ, Judo, Muay Thai, and western Boxing, so I guess it really comes down to finding the best gym in my area. There are some really good BJJ gyms around here, I haven't looked into gyms for any of the other disciplines.
    You'll find the centerline principle, economy of motion and redirection of force in BJJ, Judo, Muay Thai and English Boxing.

    There are some nice trapping drills in Muay Thai (that even work in sparring), for example: blocking an elbow attack with the left arm, front-sideways stepping, right-left hand combination to control the opponents arm and counterattacking with the right elbow.

    One of the differences between those arts and Wing Chun is, that they use some of the same principles, but instead of over-theorising about them, they just drill, train and spar with those principles.

    I also use the vertical fist in my Muay Thai. It was taught to me by a Kyokushin Karateka who crosstrained in Wing Tsun from time to time. When done in an alive manner it looks like London Prize Ring Boxing.
    Last edited by Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs; 4/29/2010 2:22pm at . Reason: some typos
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiujitsu77
    You know you are crazy about BJJ/Martial arts when...
    Quote Originally Posted by Humanzee
    ...your books on Kama Sutra and BJJ are interchangeable.
    Quote Originally Posted by jk55299 on Keysi Fighting Method
    It looks like this is a great fighting method if someone replaces your shampoo with superglue.
    The real deadly:
  10. wingchunx2z is online now

    Registered Member

    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    772

    Posted On:
    4/29/2010 2:14pm


     Style: Wing Chun

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PhoenixEyePunch View Post
    When I first came across Wing Chun as a teenager I was amazed. It seemed so much more legit than your average American Karate school, with hundreds of years of tradition, and a real authentic feel (the school in my area was run by a legitimate Chinese instructor who has been involved in the art since 1960, so the authenticity was genuine in this case).

    It really appealed to my intellectual nature. All the talk about centerline theory, trapping, economy of motion, redirection of force, it all seemed to make sense to me on a theoretical level. There was no one flying through the air, screaming while trying to kick someone on the face. It was understated, subdued, and seemed really badass because of it. It felt like the thinking man's martial art, and I loved it. The trapping, simultaneous block and attack.... I really WANTED it to work, and the idea of sneaky, lightning fast deflection and having your opponent feel his blow subtly shift direction and then suddenly be staring at your fist in his face... it was a very attractive concept and appealed to me greatly. After some time I could tell that against an opponent with any real strength or speed whatsoever, it would be nearly impossible to actually pull any of these block/attacks off, but I still wanted it to work. A real, fast punch thrown and snapped back like a normal fighter would do makes the trapping and counterattack very difficult to pull off and impractical in the real world, and in the back of my mind I knew it.

    What initially made me start doubting the art was the fact that I felt like the stance was totally unnatural and served no purpose. The goat stance that the forms are done in is uncomfortable, unweidly, and totally without any positive benefit in any way. I would be told that someone very good at the stance couldn't be pushed over in it, which was obviously total horseshit. A solid shove to the chest will make almost any Wing Chun practitioner topple backwards. I began thinking to myself, if the stance is useless, what else is wrong in the system? When I watched Muay Thai guys or even western boxers, I would look at their footwork and consider how much more sense it made than Wing Chun.

    It was a painful event, when I finally stopped thinking of Wing Chun as a superior fighting form with sound, scientific principles that would reward the dedicated practitioner with the ability to defend against larger, stronger opponents. I could no longer fool myself. The very intellectual nature that initially attracted me to Wing Chun was what forced me to eventually understand its shortcomings and move on. I'll probably always have a soft spot in my heart for it, but I'll be moving on to better, more useful things.
    Hello and wlecome phoenixeye. As a proud wing chun fighter myself I find it interesting that you've come to these conclusions. I've seen many poeple on this site seem to have the same expereinces. It does pique my curiosity though.

    Might I ask from expereince what problems you found with simultaneously blocking and punching? or the continuous striking methods advocated? what footwork did your system use? my understanding of wing chun provides you with at the very least circle step backwards triangle step forwards and to the side cutting and angle, angle step in, arrow step forward, striaght step to follow a fallign or retreating opponent.

    Have you attempted to use any of the chi sao sticking stuff on an apponent boxing you? The worst that could happen is they tag you but with 16 oz gloves thas not a big issue.

    In any case I'm sorry wing chun didnt work out for you. I feel it's an amazing system but it's not for everyone. I find there are advantages and disadvantages to it and for some people they perfer one thing over another so good luck to you in your new quest.

    One good thing about alot of bjj schools is many of them have an mma program and will have strikign adn wrestling instructors brought in to expose you to many different aspects so you get several martial arts for the price of one.
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