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  1. Styygens is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/22/2010 2:19pm


     Style: BBT/BJJ/CJKD

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    A promo video from Paladin Press.

    There's some ground work in the intro, and again at about 7:50. The rest of the video is interesting, but you asked for groundwork. I suspect with the degree of interest in groundwork, Paladin is going to make you pay for the instruction...
    YouTube- Crucible HRE Series
  2. tao.jonez is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/22/2010 4:05pm


     Style: JKD, Jiu Jitsu

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    They're just such fast little tidbits it's hard to get an overall read on the grappling part. I see headbutts, some judo like sweeps (from headlock), even some chun. That little flicking front foot nut shot that looks very Chinese-y is total Chunnery / JKD. Again hard to tell out of complete context, but seems based on some legit stuff.

    The thing about the slashing elbow is that yeah, it works, but if the attacker has a good plum clinch you can't just flick him off like Kelly shows. I'd say it works vs streetdork but not against someone who trains MT. So does this defeat MMA? I dunno.

    A proper clinch is higher than that guy's controlling your spine via the back of your head, not wrapped around your neck so low. Also the forearms are under your jawline so it doesn't slip off. Practically speaking it's also jerking you around in order to off balance you, smash you with knees, etc. It's a full body control technique, not just a shitty headgrab. His point about popping the clinch off fast is vital, but not guaranteed, certainly against a proper plum.

    Side note - In my mind every standing technique clip ends with in an Austin Powers voice saying "aaaaaand judo CHOP!" He does that same thing every time.
  3. jwinch2 is online now

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    Posted On:
    4/22/2010 5:51pm


     Style: Pekiti Tirsia Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    http://www.kellymccanncombatives.com/

    Above is Kelly's website. He has a pretty impressive reputation around the military and law enforcement community. In an area of the country where there are more combatives and cqb instructors than there are 7-11's his name comes up repeatedly as one that everyone seems to respect. I have been told that Kelly left Crucible for a while a few years back and went off to do his own thing. When he came back, he found that some of the people had altered the program and brought some additional stuff in that he did not approve of. It is my understanding that he cleaned house at that point and has since righted the ship. It is important to note that all of that is hearsay so take it with a grain of salt. My previous Arnis instructor trained in his sudden violence program and assisted with the teaching for Kelly with the DEA undercover officer survival program. He had very good things to say about Kelly and the programs in general. Our group was in line at one point to take the ground combatives class. Unfortunately, my Arnis instructor stopped teaching when he went back to work full time as a narcotics investigator so we never got to take it.

    I have exchanged some e-mails with Kelly a time or two and he seems like an open guy. My advice is to ask him some questions and see what you find out. As for his stick knife work, I know he has an FMA background to cover that material. I also know he is a big believer in removing sinawali drills from the training due to his own personal preferences.

    I am currently waiting on his ground combatives dvd which I have on order to rent but it has been out of stock for a while now so I can't give a review of that as of yet. If that changes, I will try to write something up. In his write up describing the program he discusses the use of solid jiu jitsu techniques. When we talked via e-mail he also said that I should catch on to his stuff quick due to the fact that I train BJJ. It is my impression that he likes BJJ but is trying to adapt those skills and principles to places outside of the ring.
    Last edited by jwinch2; 4/22/2010 5:59pm at .
  4. battlefields is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/22/2010 6:51pm

    forum leader
     Style: BJJ/ MMA/ MT

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Looking forward to that review of the ground work, jwinch2. I am retracting any thought of possible bullshido as it seems the impressive reputation seems to be respected in many legit circles.
  5. jwinch2 is online now

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    Posted On:
    4/22/2010 7:20pm


     Style: Pekiti Tirsia Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by battlefields View Post
    Looking forward to that review of the ground work, jwinch2. I am retracting any thought of possible bullshido as it seems the impressive reputation seems to be respected in many legit circles.
    Fair enough though I would encourage you to keep digging if you feel the need. Most of what I know is hearsay that I am sure that the Crucible group has multiple government contracts to train various agencies. That part at least, I am positive of. In regards to the ground fighting program, I have not seen it but I will try to get around to writing a review down the road. If that happens, it will be based on their DVD rather than actual experience so it will be important to keep that in mind.

    I have seen their knife DVD and have trained indirectly in the sudden violence program which I thought was quite good, though very stripped down. The knife program is also stripped down from what I saw but was based on what I would consider to be solid principle. I would expect the ground program to be similarly simplified but solid. However, I obviously cannot say for sure.

    Having said all of that, I am disappointed that I will not get a chance to train directly under Crucible to see their ground program as I have been actively seeking training which does good job of dealing with weapons and non-ring legal tactics on the ground while at the same time not being a bunch of BS anti grapple nonsense. What I have seen from the grappling people along those lines is horrible when it comes to dealing with weapons. They just don't know the weapons game well enough to handle it properly. What I have seen from the weapons guys seems to be bad when it comes to principles of movement in ground work. They just do not have the grappling background to translate their weapons skills effectively and deal with someone who does know the ground game.

    Anyway, like I said. Keep digging if you like. I think you are going to find that he is a guy with solid skills and a formidable reputation. However, I could be completely full of crap.
  6. jwinch2 is online now

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    Posted On:
    5/08/2010 10:10am


     Style: Pekiti Tirsia Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Ground Combatives DVD - Mini review

    I finally got the DVD in the mail for the ground combatives (aka Kem-'ba-tivz) program by Kelly McCann and Crucible. I had been waiting on this for some time. I also was supposed to have the opportunity to train with the group but so far, that has not materialized unfortunately. I have been looking for material for reality based ground fighting for some time that does a good job of recognizing the skill and technique with which the average person who trains MMA and BJJ is capable of fielding and expands that into areas of multiple attackers, weapons play, and general street based situations. Most of what I see put out in terms of ground combatives is simply horrible and seems to be done by people who don't know the ground game but know weapons and stand up pretty well. Or, the know the ground game but their focus is competition and they don't know crap about combative scenarios. With that in mind, I have been eagerly looking forward to this DVD and seeing the information presented.

    To start off with, any notion that Mr. McCann is not respectful of MMA, Jiu-Jitsu, Muay Thai, or Boxing should be dismissed immediately. This is something that is unfortunately common from people who are looking at combative sport from a combative mindset and it is pleasing to see that it is not the case here. Mr. McCann starts off his video with a very lengthy description of why he decided to do this program. In this monologue, he is very complimentary of MMA fighters, grapplers, boxers, and combative athletes in general. He talks a good deal about the level of technique he sees, comfort with violence and being hit, level of conditioning, and overall athleticism. He then goes on to note that since MMA has been around for quite some time now, it is not unreasonable to think that a relatively untrained individual who watches MMA with regularity could have picked up some basic techniques here or there. He talks about multiple attacker scenarios and the employment of weapons into the situation and how that alters your choice of technique and the time you may or may not have to pull them off.

    Regarding the techniques themselves, he goes through common MMA structures and how to alter them for a street or combative situation. I found his understanding of the BJJ/Judo ground game to be very solid from my own view point of limited experience and his ideas for dealing with commonly seen structures to be quite good. I'm sure that there are counters for everything that he is teaching but, to be fair, he is good about acknowledging that. I also greatly enjoyed his discussion of multiple attacker scenarios (something I had the misfortune of witnessing when two Hispanic youths jumped a middle aged Black male who was walking with his wife just yesterday afternoon at the mall - Crazy timing and a powerful experience). Finally, as a weapons guy, I enjoyed his discussion and demonstrations of commonly seen structures and how the addition of weapons into the game changes things.

    If you are an MMA or competition based BJJ person and are not interested in defensive aspects of these techniques this DVD will have little to offer you and I would not recommend you get it. However, if you are that same person but would like to have a better understanding of how to use those same skills in a street based situation, I think you find some things you disagree with but will be happy with what you see here overall. If you are a person with limited MMA/BJJ experience who is concerned about how they would handle a defensive situation against someone who has MMA experience, I think you will find this information to be quite good. If you are someone with a good stand up game (or working on it by currently training) who is capable of handling both empty hand and weapons scenarios along with multiple attacker situations, I think you will find that this information could provide the core of a solid ground game which is based in reality rather than the ring, while still basing the skills on tried and true aspects of the combative sport ground game. For someone like me who does train BJJ (poorly) and does some Muay Thai (even more poorly) in addition to my FMA (my primary system) I am pleased as punch with this DVD and the information therein and I will be dissecting this information and playing with it for some time.

    That's it from my end. I highly recommend it as long as you can look at it for what it is, not for what it is not.
    Last edited by jwinch2; 5/08/2010 10:42am at .
  7. jwinch2 is online now

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    Posted On:
    5/08/2010 2:01pm


     Style: Pekiti Tirsia Kali

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I should add that Mr. McCann does spend a good deal of time talking about things other than the ground. The ground stuff was good but there is a good deal of time spent on the clinch, takedowns, and Thai kicks and cut kicks.
  8. Brian R. VanCise is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/08/2010 3:37pm


     Style: IRT/FMA/BJJ/BUDO TAIJUTSU

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Thanks for the review jwinch2!
  9. thaclient is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/08/2010 10:24pm


     Style: MT noob, BJJ even noober

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian R. VanCise View Post
    Thanks for the review jwinch2!
    I would like to echo this sentiment as well. Great job on the review, and for shedding some light on Mr. McCann in general!
  10. battlefields is offline
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    Posted On:
    5/09/2010 2:28am

    forum leader
     Style: BJJ/ MMA/ MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah, cheers jwinch.
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