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Posted On:
4/21/2010 10:55am

Style: Stick, Taiji, combatives--
That's interesting but are there any specifics? Desputed liniages and incorrect histories, is anything specific being disputed or is this just to say that the histories are incorrect or imbelished?
I have books now that say that the Bodhidarma link is simply incorrect because Martial Arts existed in China before he ever visited. But that he did introduce changes.
Maybe this is going to be covered in Part 2? Just wondering.Combatives training log.
Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D
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Posted On:
4/21/2010 11:07am
Style: Cheng Man Ching Taijiquan--
If you mean specific lineages for Taijiquan, they yep, that will be covered quite in depth, I promise. As for info related to Shaolin, that is out of my reading range for now.
The lineages related to Taijiquan will most likely be covered in part 3, 4, or 5. There's a lot of relevant background info that I would prefer to put out first.
Edited:
That is not to say that Bodhidarma did not change the way MA was practiced, merely that Chinese MA did not originate from Shaolin temple, as some apparently claimed (at least that's the way I understand it.)Last edited by Sri Hanuman; 4/21/2010 11:17am at .
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Posted On:
4/21/2010 11:24am

Style: Stick, Taiji, combatives--
Ok, cool. Yeah, I could care less about the Shaolin side personally. But I am very interested in the Tai Chi liniages. I've read so much BS, and it seems to conflict with each other depending on which site or book you are reading. Looking forward to this, thanks!!
Combatives training log.
Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D
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Shaolin is the root for most myths so, you should care.
As to BH, as you stated many scholars are saying he brought in the Yoga a stronger meditation aspect which improved Martial Arts as a whole not fighting techniques.
Calm mind relaxation all the stuff that is good for enhancement but, not solely about techniques.The hood mentality is crippling disease, that attacks your nervous system. It makes you nervous of the system. Gangsters and hood rats are especially susceptible to this growth stunting mentality. The hood is where I'm from, but it's not what I am. The hood is where I'm from, but it's not what I am. --Keith David--Ice Cube
All I got is genes and chromosomes
Consider me Black to the bone
All I want is peace and love
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Posted On:
4/21/2010 11:36am
Style: Cheng Man Ching Taijiquan--
A somewhat interesting, if a bit off topic note, the Shaolin only became popular during the Qing dynasty when the Jurcheng "barbarians," a.k.a. Manchu, conquered the Ming dynasty. Until then, the Shaolin were relatively low profile, unlike what we see in movies today. (The popularity was in large part due to fictional stories being written, and various rebel organizations training in martial arts, and associating with Shaolin.)
Hsu's Black Belt Magazine article or book would be an interesting read on this topic.Last edited by Sri Hanuman; 4/21/2010 11:40am at .
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Posted On:
4/21/2010 11:43am

Style: Stick, Taiji, combatives--
Well, I mean, I am interested in lots of martial arts and histories. But as far as this article is concerned, I am more interested in the Tai Chi stuff. Yeah, I have read some stuff that said that BH brought in all martial arts from India and that basically there was nothing before that, that was any good. A book I was reading last night said that he came in and taugh a lot of yoga routines but the martial arts were well established before he ever got there. Obviously the yoga played a big part because it is used in pretty much everything now.
But did all of Shaolin come from India? This book says no. But I can understand where politics will play a roll in the myths as well. So it just seems like a question that won't get answered. However, if the Tai Chi liniages can be better defined and where it came from would be interesting. You know not just that some guy wondered off into the wilderness and watched a bunch of animals fighting.
Also the Ba Gua source. I would also like more information on that. I haven't done any, but will in the future. But the information I was reading on it was that the first guy who demonstrated it in public gave credit to a Master that was never heard of, and none of his students ever emerged. But apparently it was appropriate in China to give credit to someone else, rather than saying you created it your self. And more reasoning stuff about that.Combatives training log.
Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D
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Posted On:
4/21/2010 11:55am
Style: Cheng Man Ching Taijiquan--
This, right here, is a key factor in more than half of the clusterfuck that is Taijiquan lineage. Dan Docherty described it as a mine field inside a maze, and he wasn't exhaggerating.
As for Baguazhang and Hsing-I, they all seem to have originated in the same place as Taijiquan, but the reason for that has nothing to do with some mystical theories related to magical immortals. Simply put, the Hubei province was a war zone for several centuries, and many different martial and religious sects (both Buddhist and Taoist,) have used Hubei as their bases of operations for rebellions and uprisings, including the White Lotus Sect, it's off shoot Eight Trigram Sect, The Taiping, and the Boxer Rebellions. -
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Posted On:
4/22/2010 7:01am--
Thanks for publishing (I'm also hopping a lift, 'cos I can't seem to post otherwise). I've read Adam Hsu's book and took note of his exposition of "The Myth of Shaolin". I've not yet made it to Shaolin but I remain nonplussed by the alleged fact that BD meditated for X number of years and left his shadown on a wall. Ok, how does one do THAT exactly?
I've got Dan Docherty's book as well and his is a refreshing, and questioning approach. And why not? There's also a published photo of him with a group (Chinese & European) and he's the only one looking at the ground rather than the camera. It might be just the shutter speed but I prefer it to suggest his scepticism of Shaolin (at least in its more commercial guise). OTOH, I could be wrong but even so, the commercialisation of the area should be borne in mind. By the way, Dan Docherty once wrote an article on "Empty Force" - he is a non-believer - and poured water over a proclaimed expert (chinese) and poured water over his Head. Mr Docherty concluded that he himself is a "pagan". In other words, "show me"...or its rubbish.
Turning to the point above about yoga/Tai Chi: is this not a reference to the practice of "Mindfulness"? Certainly I'm inclined to view in this context - and my Tai Chi Teacher, Keith Alker, is an adherent of this practice.
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Posted On:
4/22/2010 7:09am



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Posted On:
4/21/2010 9:49am
Style: Cheng Man Ching Taijiquan
Disputing Zhang San Feng, and other Myths of "Internal Martial Arts"