Origin of Karo's No Gi Judo

**Matt Phillips** · Posted On: 5/10/2010 8:21am

Hunter literally smashed his laptop while I was trying to walk him through a malware removal. It may be a little bit before he gets back on :\

Just my own $0.02 on the questions asked:

I'm pretty sure his comment about NHB->MMA referred to the evolution of the modern skill set, and not the modern rules. As Omega pointed out, the modern rules were not even being discussed until around 1999, and IIRC not adopted until sometime in 2000. Nobody particularly wanted those rules, it was purely a matter of political survival for the sport.

Other similar rulesets were already in place (SHOOTO comes to mind), and there certainly were fighters with the modern mix of techniques (Ruas, Bas, Frank Shamrock, etc.) around in the mid 90's. I think the biggest difference between something like BHJJ and the early Lion's Den (which was the dominant camp for a few) was the elite level of the practitioners. There is a big difference between getting your wrestling from Darrel Gholar, and getting it from Jerry Bohlander, or kickboxing from Kaman vs Mezger. The Den had the formula down, but BHJJ was the first place to bring each component to an elite level. With Kerr, Bas, Ruas (and Oleg) on staff, it was a very dominant camp competitively.

Hopefully Steve gets back on soon and you won't have to listen to me speculate.

Edit: @jnp You patience in letting the backstory get told before the technical discussion begins in very much appreciated.

Edit: Edit: This is what SHOOTO looked like in 1999 YouTube- Caol Uno vs. Rumina Sato 1 - Part Two shooto

Look familiar?

**Naszir** · Posted On: 5/10/2010 12:10pm

Omega, your opinion on this is definitely wanted as well. The same to MTripp.

WW, I am an old school Erik Paulson fan so you better believe I know what old SHOOTO looks like. On a wee tangent, I think they still have one of the best amateur to pro promotion systems out there.

I was looking more for the people that demonstrated the difference more so than the ruleset shift but the time line and reasons for it are pretty interesting as well.

**T HUNTER** · Posted On: 5/11/2010 3:33pm

Mark hit the nail on the head.

**T HUNTER** · Posted On: 5/11/2010 3:36pm

Thank you ALL.

**T HUNTER** · Posted On: 5/11/2010 4:09pm

WW made a great post too...Reza (I trained him for Brian) was the start of making weight classes...which is my theory of WHY Mike NEVER Boxed Julio. Same applies to BJJ, ADCC, Judo, MMA, NHB, etc.,...

**T HUNTER** · Posted On: 5/11/2010 4:19pm

meanig Reza got destroyed by Brian because of the size and weight disparity...so ufc 11 was really the end of open nhb as we knew it...(because at 12 they started weight classes...which are still being added today...down and down and down...) IMHAEO...I also feel that there should be a SHW Div. of 266+

**T HUNTER** · Posted On: 5/11/2010 4:24pm

Great post also Mike (Omega)...(btw...had a great time at mike's new mma gym in santa barbara, ca. top notch master and school...if you ever get a chance, get your a** there)

"THE HUNTER"

Steve M. Arce

**T HUNTER** · Posted On: 5/11/2010 4:27pm

another funny thing...memory lane...i trained genki a lot back at bhjj...and was with him when he subbed mike brown at tito chuck I...(ufc 47 in vegas)...those were the tiny guys...no market for them back then...it was dark (card)...now...brown is...well, was...the king of wec 145...hahaha...oh well...cest la vie...

**T HUNTER** · Posted On: 5/13/2010 4:48pm

ttt...

***Omega Supreme*** · Posted On: 5/13/2010 5:08pm

Yes, I would like to read about the next installment of down memory lane. As I had mentioned before one of my guys used to train down there and talked about Genki all the time.