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  1. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/24/2010 1:38pm

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Mordschlag View Post
    As I don't feel like quoting multiple posts and going about it that way, consider this like a big general reply:

    On the video - You lot seem a deal less cynical than I, not that that's a bad thing. I don't take people at face value but I hope their intentions are as pure as you all seem to believe, if only for the sake of the character of HEMA as a whole.
    FWIW I watched Jessica Finley (the designer of these jackets) lead an excellent ringen class at the WMAW conference last year, and have chatted with her; I would struggle to believe that her intentions are anything but upfront.

    I am just really suspicious of turning Ringen into something like the EMAs and I would personally hate to see such uniforms being required by many HEMA groups in the future. Far too ritualistic for me.
    I don't see any suggestion that many HEMA groups will, or even should "require" uniform jackets. These jackets provide an option for groups who want to train ringen techniques and also look the part; nothing more nor less that I can see.

    Skin - I'm not trying to say skin is exactly like a Gi. Obviously it is not exactly the same, you can't grab skin exactly like a sleeve or a collar or a belt. But like I said...unless the plate you want to practice requires said article clothing, I don't know why you'd want to wear the Gi.
    Once again; these jackets are intended for practicing the historical ringen techniques that *do* require grabbing clothing. They are much stronger than t-shirts and are aesthetically appropriate for historical European martial arts. These are obvious, basic points that are explicitly made in the video review.

    That floats your boat then by all means go for it. But who cares if you get a little fucked up from sparring? Isn't that the nature of the martial arts? Do you want to be that guy who wears a bird cage on their head when they do open hand sparring? If not, why would a Gi be any different? If you fight with swords, do you not expect to get bruises and cuts? If you fight with your hands, do you not expect pretty much the same?
    The jackets are not intended as protection against skin-grabs.
  2. Mordschlag is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/24/2010 1:44pm


     Style: ARMA, Antagonistics

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR View Post
    The jackets are not intended as protection against skin-grabs.
    Was referencing the posting by BadUglyMagic.
  3. BadUglyMagic is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/25/2010 11:35am


     Style: slackerjitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by willaume View Post
    Yes I did

    Sure it can, it only takes 75 Newton if my memory serve me right So the concept is as reliable and hitting the 8975th pressure point where you can kill a man instantly if you hit him between the horse of the Guinness and the hour of the Grosh if he is Cancerian with Leo in raising in the house of mercury.

    But what do I know, I am 45 so I am permanently torn and stretched.

    Phil
    Why the hostility? Do you dislike the idea of a training jacket that much?
  4. willaume is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/26/2010 5:58pm


     Style: aikido, medieval fencing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BadUglyMagic View Post
    Why the hostility? Do you dislike the idea of a training jacket that much?
    Damn your eyes, you discovered my dastardly secret, thorough the cover of slanging off your argument, I really despise jacket because of my non resolved Oedipus and the fact my mother forced my to wear a jacket every time I went to school.

    phil
  5. BadUglyMagic is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/26/2010 6:44pm


     Style: slackerjitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by willaume View Post
    Damn your eyes, you discovered my dastardly secret, thorough the cover of slanging off your argument, I really despise jacket because of my non resolved Oedipus and the fact my mother forced my to wear a jacket every time I went to school.

    phil

    Your posts read as if should have a voice-over by John Cleese. Thank you.
  6. HereBeADragon is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/27/2010 1:29am


     Style: Limalama, Judo & BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Two things;
    1. Why is there a problem with having a western style grappling jacket for western style grappling? Its like asking why do Judo players or BJJ guys have a gi.

    2. Are there any published resources on Ringen? I'd really like to learn more on this style but I haven't seen much published on it.
  7. Mordschlag is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/27/2010 1:53am


     Style: ARMA, Antagonistics

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by HereBeADragon View Post
    Two things;
    1. Why is there a problem with having a western style grappling jacket for western style grappling? Its like asking why do Judo players or BJJ guys have a gi.
    2. Are there any published resources on Ringen? I'd really like to learn more on this style but I haven't seen much published on it.
    I. My parents didn't hug me enough when I was a kid and now I feel an aversion towards articles of clothing hugging me, like a jacket or a gi. And I try to release this inner tension by clubbing people with the pommels of swords.


    II. Certainly. Two favorites:

    Amazon.com: Codex Wallerstein: A Medieval Fighting Book from the Fifteenth Century on the Longsword, Falchion, Dagger, and Wrestling (9781581605853): Grzegorz Zabinski, Bartlomiej Walczak: Books

    Amazon.com: Sigmund Ringeck's Knightly Arts of Combat: Sword and Buckler Fighting, Wrestling, and Fighting in Armor (9781581604993): Peter Svard, David Lindholm, John Clements: Books

    And http://www.thearma.org/manuals.htm some free ones there.
    Last edited by Mordschlag; 4/27/2010 1:59am at .
  8. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/27/2010 2:07am

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    YouTube- Medieval Wrestling

    Also this instructional DVD from a German group - http://revival.us/leibringenintroduc...wrestling.aspx . IIRC it was a bit controversial because they "mixed and matched" techniques from different sources, but as far as I know that's what they set out to do, by creating a wrestling style that represented the whole Renaissance German tradition.
  9. Dirty Rooster is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/27/2010 2:45am


     Style: Basic Self-Defence

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    These look good ;
    Quote Originally Posted by captainzorikh View Post
    ...Here's the website for the off-the-rack jackets also mentioned in the video (and also mentioned on the Finley Custom Uniforms page)...
    http://www.revivalclothing.com/medie...ingjacket.aspx
    Sensible, decent colours, no stupid gimmicks.

    These look like **** made up by typical mcDojo types who really want kung-fu pyjamas but pretend they dont ;
    YouTube- Review: Western Martial Arts Jacket by Jessica Finley
    (A comprehensive video review of Jessica Finley's new HEMA training jacket design, courtesy of Bill Grandy.)
    I got to 36 seconds before I had to stop watching. Ugh.

    Real men use second-hand Barbours from the olde charity shoppes.
  10. willaume is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/01/2010 3:12am


     Style: aikido, medieval fencing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by HereBeADragon View Post
    Two things;
    1. Why is there a problem with having a western style grappling jacket for western style grappling? Its like asking why do Judo players or BJJ guys have a gi.

    2. Are there any published resources on Ringen? I'd really like to learn more on this style but I haven't seen much published on it.
    1) There is no problem as such, the point is it is not vital to have one as a judo gi or an old fashion rugby club will do the job just as well.
    at the end it is matter of taste.

    2) well you know, like most of us you will have to RTFMMs.
    There are some videos from different groups on you tube.

    No-one really has a clear idea, and that includes me, at the momment it is our best educated guess. and with a bit of research yours will be just as good as mine.

    phil
    Last edited by willaume; 5/01/2010 3:16am at .
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