4/19/2010 10:31am, #51
Upa: Do you not think that drilling "Known good" combos helps develop the ability to feel that kind of thing on the fly? I use the triangle/armbar/omoplata combo a lot, but I think we might have drilled that sequence as a combo maybe once or twice total.
I only started using the combo because I liked omoplatas and triangles and couldn't pull off armbars at the time, so "faking" an armbar to get the omo worked great for me.
How can it not be better to teach those combos and setups together and drill them repeatedly? What other combos are out there that people are drilling? What are some little details that help improve your sweep percentages that go along with the the combos?
4/19/2010 10:34am, #52
4/19/2010 10:40am, #53
However, learning a bunch of chains of moves should not be the point in my opinion. All the good guys at my gym chain attacks together but this isn't some rote sequence it is in response to their opponent's actions and anticipation, on the fly, of their opponent's actions.
What other combos are out there that people are drilling?
4/19/2010 10:47am, #54
I think you're missing the point of learning and drilling combinations. It's not so that you have a list of combos to bust out randomly during rolling, it's to develop the ability to transition between those moves and others, and to help learn how moves connect to each other and what moves connect well. Many people may not realize that some moves can be connected to each other, they've never see it before. So people who have seen those moves connected who can put together drills that help you learn how to connect them and them practicing connecting them can help them learn faster. Instead of me having to spontaneously rediscover that I can connect triangle chokes -> armbar -> giftwrap sweep someone can demonstrate that and show me a way to drill those.
Maybe by the time you hit purple belt you already had 4-5 solid combos that you just hit. You know unconciously that when you go for a particular sweep that most of the time when your opponent defends it will set them up for a counter, etc... But why not codify that kind of thing and teach it to the blue belts under you so that they aren't forced to rediscover those combinations? Maybe with that head start they can develop their own combinations faster than they otherwise would.
4/19/2010 10:47am, #55
In other words, I don't really use the chains I learned in situational drilling. I use chains that are based off of my opponent's most common reactions. When he defends "off script" of the chain, I can feel it and use something applicable but different than my standard progression.
4/19/2010 10:58am, #56
You start off by saying:It's not so that you have a list of combos to bust out randomly during rolling, it's to develop the ability to transition between those moves and others, and to help learn how moves connect to each other and what moves connect well.Maybe by the time you hit purple belt you already had 4-5 solid combos that you just hit. ... why not codify that kind of thing
Look I may well be completely off base but when I roll with good guys I really do not get any sense that they're rolling off of some script. They have an idea of what can be transitioned to but it is still, necessarily, fluid.
4/19/2010 11:02am, #57
Yeah, we're completely talking past each other here.
I'm looking for existing combos that people have put together that are reliable that they use over and over again, yes a "List of moves". But to use as a training aid for drilling to help develop the ability to FEEL how moves connect to each other and how your opponent can be forced to react and how not and to simply develop a better feel overall for how and when you can combine techniques. I'm looking for tools to use while drilling, not while rolling.
So let me step back one and rephrase: How do you guys drill to help improve your ability to combine techniques successfully? Do you drill for that at all or do you just expect it to happen naturally as people develop?
4/19/2010 11:07am, #58
- Join Date
- Feb 2005
- herndon, va, usa
- karate / bjj
i've seen (and felt) people clearly working on a specific sequence; however, this is almost exclusively in conjunction with a significant skill differential. i don't see it much without that disparity, though that may simply be poor observational skills on my part.
preset combos are good for self diagnostics while rolling, but not a goal in and of themselves.
Last edited by pauli; 4/19/2010 11:10am at .
4/19/2010 11:19am, #59
That said, drilling combos can help develop some sensitivity. Better yet, unscripted flow drills are pretty useful.
I use two types of flow drills, scripted and unscripted. Scripted flowing is simply situational drilling. I go for "A", you defend, so I react with "B" etc. Unscripted flowing is rolling at less than 50% intensity with one partner the designated attacker and the other defends. I go for "A", he defends normally at a slow pace. I transition to "B", more defense means I go to "C" and so on.
The idea is to work on finesse and minimizing reaction time between separate moves. You don't know how your partner is going to defend. This, as well as the reduced pace, helps you plot out additional paths on the grappling roadmap. If you need to stop and think about where you want to go next, do so. Your partner should only defend as a reaction to your moves, otherwise you're just sparring at low intensity.
4/19/2010 11:20am, #60
Flow drills is what I was thinking too, of course I don't flow.