Sweeps

**Zapruder** · Posted On: 4/18/2010 4:18pm

Originally Posted by Mtripp

Personally I think the most neglected part in most schools are development drills. Examples?

1. Rodeo ride: You have their back with rear mount, one hand on the lapel, you get 10 seconds to submit the person.

2. Turn the turtle: As it sounds, you have 10 seconds to turn the turtle on its back.

There are many more but you get the idea. .

Would you mind creating another thread about these drills...and then listing said drills? This would be sticky material here!

**Mtripp** · Posted On: 4/18/2010 6:59pm

Originally Posted by Zapruder

Would you mind creating another thread about these drills...and then listing said drills? This would be sticky material here!

Yes, I will try and do so this week.

**Lindz** · Posted On: 4/18/2010 7:42pm

Originally Posted by Mtripp

Very old Judo guys will remember mat randori where you sit on the mat, back to back, and you then "go." I think this has value as well because there is a "scramble" element to the entire game, and it prevents the "quick pull guard" thing.

My dojo does this almost every "recreational" class. I've never seen the scramble result in anything but both opponents facing each other then knee wrestling. Should we be trying something other than just spinning to face with a gap between us?

**Mtripp** · Posted On: 4/18/2010 8:24pm

Originally Posted by Lindz

My dojo does this almost every "recreational" class. I've never seen the scramble result in anything but both opponents facing each other then knee wrestling. Should we be trying something other than just spinning to face with a gap between us?

Well...

Which way are you turning? Ever change it up? What is your level when you turn? Ever change it up? Ever just spun on your butt and gone into a sweep?

I can go on.....

***jnp*** · Posted On: 4/18/2010 9:11pm

Originally Posted by Mtripp

Well...

Which way are you turning? Ever change it up? What is your level when you turn? Ever change it up? Ever just spun on your butt and gone into a sweep?

I can go on.....

I had already received two messages asking me if it would be alright to ask you to go on.

So please, go on.

**Mtripp** · Posted On: 4/19/2010 5:13am

Well, I think where most people get into trouble on the ground is they don't understand physics, and Newton's first law to be specific.

Go look it up... I'll wait.

OK, once movement stops, you are now in a pinning game. It is VERY hard to escape pins, do sweeps, etc, if there is no movement. That first law works against you. Think about the stand up game for a moment. How hard is it to throw someone who locks their arms, squats, and won't move? Its so hard there are rules in Judo against taking that position. BTW, its why most sweeps fail.

The sitting back to back drill is VERY different from fighting off of our knees because it adds the dynamic of motion. It makes that first law our friend. Sadly most people do not use it, they just turn and get to their knees and we are back to fighting from their knees.

Of course, I am rumored to know nothing about this next part, and it has been claimed that to even speak about it causes severe trauma to my id, ego and super ego....

...but before I write more, two words... rubber guard.

**Matt Phillips** · Posted On: 4/19/2010 6:23am

Originally Posted by Mtripp

Well, I think where most people get into trouble on the ground is they don't understand physics, and Newton's first law to be specific.

Go look it up... I'll wait.

OK, once movement stops, you are now in a pinning game. It is VERY hard to escape pins, do sweeps, etc, if there is no movement. That first law works against you. Think about the stand up game for a moment. How hard is it to throw someone who locks their arms, squats, and won't move? Its so hard there are rules in Judo against taking that position. BTW, its why most sweeps fail.

In addition to the 1st law, there is also the matter of static friction to be overcome.

**Mtripp** · Posted On: 4/19/2010 6:26am

Originally Posted by War Wheel

In addition to the 1st law, there is also the matter of static friction to be overcome.

Yes, and likely much more so in Gi rather than no Gi.

**PointyShinyBurn** · Posted On: 4/19/2010 6:33am

Originally Posted by Lindz

My dojo does this almost every "recreational" class. I've never seen the scramble result in anything but both opponents facing each other then knee wrestling. Should we be trying something other than just spinning to face with a gap between us?

I backwards roll to inverted guard when we do this in Judo class.

Personally, in no-gi I use the full guard for submissions and sweeps from those submissions (omoplata from rubber guard being the highest percentage). I use half-guard if I want to sweep.

**UpaLumpa** · Posted On: 4/19/2010 9:32am

I don't understand why you would think sweeps are any different than anything else. Throws rarely work in isolation. Takedowns rarely work in isolation. Submissions rarely work in isolation. Escapes rarely work in isolation. KO's rarely work in isolation. Why expect sweeps to work in isolation or expect them to work easily against trained opponents.

Proper kuzushi in sweeps comes about the same way as proper kuzushi in throws. Yes it may be harder because a more sturdy base can be had on the ground but the same principles apply. Athletes can often force throws when it takes great skill to do the throw with good kuzushi. The same is true of sweeps except it is harder to force them.