4/14/2010 5:51am, #11
4/14/2010 8:13am, #12
Gladiators Academy Lafayette, LA
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Lafayette, LA
- Judo, MMA, White Trash JJ
I would have to agree that you will need to chain in order to get a sweep against established players from the CLOSED guard. Personally I have given up on playing closed guard in both gi and nogi/MMA.
In the gi I am playing an open guard game now that is 1000000 times better than any closed guard I have ever done. Utilizing grips, body weight, and momentum i.e. good Judo, I am sweeping roughly 80% of my attempts on the white and blue belts and way over 50% on the purple and brown belt(we have one of each regularly in the club).
This is due to the fact that I am able to generate more power with my body than in the closed guard and I have more maneuverability due to the fact that I am able to keep the guy away with my feet and legs. It is actually quite fun and almost like I am doing sacrifice throws from my back.
Right now I am improving my guard game and just working to mainly sweep and get top position. I feel I am much better attacking from that position and by combining it with my take down ability I should be able to handle any situation.
I mean let's be for real here . The last thing you expect from a Judo BB in the guard is to get sweep with a Rolletta inverted hoist sweep. But I will bust that move out like Young MC with a fat roll at a strip club.
Nogi and MMA I work mainly butterfly and half butterfly guard if I am on my back. I try to stay off my back in this setting more than in the gi. I also teach more escapes and sweeps from this position than submissions. Mainly just to train the guys that it is not a jiujitsu match its a fucking fight and you should not lay on your back in a fight.Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.
4/14/2010 9:33am, #13
- Join Date
- Jun 2004
- Judo, Hung Family Boxing
i'm having a lot of trouble pulling off sweeps in judo newaza. of course part of it is that i am outweighed by 50+lbs most of the time, but i feel like it's much harder to sweep people who are using a pinning style than someone going for subs.
most of the time i can get back to half guard against the brown belts and lower belts, but keeping it or managing a sweep is a whole different story. i know that the answer is to get better at sweeps, but i'm having a lot of trouble adjusting to the gi grappling game, as it's so much easier for them the lock down my ability to move. it's a lot harder to get a hip out and get onto my side, and even if i manage to get a deep half guard and go for an "old school" sweep, i rarely pull it off, other than against the teenagers who weigh even less than i do.
i asked my sensei and he said "mmm, that is because you are a lightweight." i think in his mind, i have a good defensive newaza game that will lead to getting stood up in judo matches, and maybe he feels that's good enough for now. i'm not sure, really.
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4/14/2010 9:35am, #14
Heh, so we all agree that combos/chains is the way to go.
Any of you higher level guys want to lay out your top 2 or 3 favorite chains of 3 attacks for us? Any suggestions on drills to use to practice chaining some related subs? I know for me it's sometimes hard to feel when submissions chain together outside of rolling. When I'm rolling things just happen and I end up chaining stuff together, but when I'm thinking about it later I can't quite figure out what happened in order to practice connecting the techniques together. Any suggestions?
4/14/2010 10:44am, #15
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- Join Date
- May 2002
- Submission Grappling
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4/14/2010 11:10am, #16
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
- Judo, Sub wrestling
If you mean the constant driving pressure: yes, it is more common than in BJJ, where it is just one style among several. You will get used to it and learn to take advantage of it.most of the time i can get back to half guard against the brown belts and lower belts, but keeping it or managing a sweep is a whole different story. i know that the answer is to get better at sweeps, but i'm having a lot of trouble adjusting to the gi grappling game, as it's so much easier for them the lock down my ability to move.
it's a lot harder to get a hip out and get onto my side, and even if i manage to get a deep half guard and go for an "old school" sweep, i rarely pull it off, other than against the teenagers who weigh even less than i do.
Don't get discouraged.
4/14/2010 11:13am, #17
That ties in directly to the combos discussion too. With Old School you DEFINITELY want to have Plan B or some other sweep ready to go back the other direction. Drive into them for old school, they push back into you, you roll the opposite direction for the sweep.
Once you get used to using that driving force against them you'll pick up more openings you can use. Our guys with wrestling backgrounds have that same kind of top game and it definitely takes a lot of work to sweep them, but it's not impossible.
4/14/2010 1:30pm, #18
So we did a really cool deep half guard series last wek in Gi. I wish I could find a video of it but it is pretty simple so I'll try to describe it. All Three start the same way. Get deep and pass their belt between their legs then reach around their thigh and grab the belt as in picture three. http://www.grapplearts.com/half-guar...-bjj-belt.html
1) Reach for the opposite knee and get a palm up grip where the pants bunch up. Then roll under (toward the belt grip hand) and lift the knee. Scissor your legs and come up to side control
2) If they post out on their hands and take their weight off of you pull the far knee toward you and scissor your legs so you can drive in and roll their hips over. (I'm a little foggy on this one)
3) This is the one shown on grapple arts. So neither direction works and they post out with the leg that you are gripping near the knee. Let go of the knee grip and scissor your legs so you can come up all the way to your feet if you need to to get the single leg.
Anyone else work this series before? (or have any idea what I'm talking about?)
4/14/2010 4:18pm, #19
- Join Date
- Dec 2007
- Richmond, VA
- Combat Cuddling
I'm a big fan of using the Armbar to pendulum sweep, to omoplata/sweep. I spam that usually for gi/nogi. In gi it's scissor sweep, armbar, pendulum sweep. Another is arm drag, hip bump, loop choke (gi)/guillotine(nogi), kimura options. This is all closed guard.
There's a nice metaphor for helping with sweeps that I heard. It's like rocking a canoe over, back and forth back and forth till it tips.
Could one of the better guys go over some of the basics of the pendulum sweep I've heard and seen several variations that work but wanted to get some more perspective.
(for example, Phil Migliarese version I've seen here as opposed to the get a 90 degree angle version)
YouTube- Phil Migliarese shows the flower sweep (BJJ Brazilian JiuJitsu)
Last edited by DKJr; 4/14/2010 4:23pm at .
4/14/2010 5:56pm, #20
the problem with a lot of sweeps is that when you start to open up and try something you get punched in the face. when you close up and cling to them like a barnacle you'll take less damage. in fact very little will happen at all. it's an example of how it's much easier to restrain someone than it is to finish them.
a couple of other people here have talked along these lines, but in MMA training i often find success with a high guard -> armbar/triangle/omoplata/flower sweep combination. you can lock up their arms to stop the punches and simultaneously go for subs and sweeps. otherwise i'll do something like kick them off and scramble.