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  1. tao.jonez is offline
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    Ninja Fruit

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2010 1:53pm


     Style: JKD, Jiu Jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I thought it was more about how cooking made the food easier to digest as it broke down certain enzymes / proteins... Plus cooking can make food last longer (smoking it for example).
    These things allowed more efficient consumption of the hunted food, more consistent food supply, and fewer food borne illnesses.
    Then we became less nomadic.
    <skip ahead a little>
    Then humans had more time to argue via the internet.
  2. TheRuss is offline
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    is badder than you

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2010 7:33pm

    Join us... or die
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tao.jonez View Post
    I thought it was more about how cooking made the food easier to digest as it broke down certain enzymes / proteins... Plus cooking can make food last longer (smoking it for example).
    These things allowed more efficient consumption of the hunted food, more consistent food supply, and fewer food borne illnesses.
    Then we became less nomadic.
    <skip ahead a little>
    Then humans had more time to argue via the internet.
    More "denatured" than "broke down".
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Downstreet on the flip-flop, timepants.
  3. Blue Negation is offline

    Woke up in the mortuary

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2010 8:11pm


     Style: Judo, Sub wrestling

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss View Post
    More "denatured" than "broke down".
    Following up on that:

    The proteins are not broken down at the 1deg level by cooking. It just isn't hot enough. They will still have the same amino acid sequence and they for damn sure will still have intact amino acids.

    They will be be broken down partly or completely at higher levels of organization (denatured, not destroyed). Put simply, we all know proteins like to take shapes so they can do things. Muscle proteins arrange themselves in fibers for pulling against each other. Enzymes are little globs that swallow things up and catalyze reactions for twisting them into new shapes. Ribosomes are little beads that move along nucleic acids and read them.

    Proteins in these original shapes are nutritionally inferior to denatured (cooked) proteins. For damn good reasons, our bodies will not absorb proteins in their natural state. We don't trust our food. It has good reason to want to poison us, after all. So your body has to denature ingested proteins. Flatten them out, unroll them, string them out into their constituent little links of amino acids. This removes a lot of the ability of proteins to screw with your body (this is related to why certain poisons are nearly harmless when ingested but life-threatening if injected into your blood).

    Cooking does a lot of this work for us. Your body can't, obviously, provide temperatures of 300+deg F internally, so it uses acids and enzymes. This doesn't get all of the work done, either in time or simply because the protein resists that method of digestion, so a lot of protein is "wasted" - passes through your system undigested.

    Certain nutrients ARE potentially broken down by heating. Vitamin C, for instance, you should get from uncooked fruits. Note that PLANTS WANT YOU TO EAT FRUIT, evolutionarily speaking, so FRUIT IS VERY BIOAVAILABLE in terms of nutrients in a raw state. Generalizing from fruit is, I suspect, part of the flaw in the perspective of raw foodists.

    /rant
  4. Emevas is offline
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    Dysfunctionally Strong

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2010 8:17pm

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     Style: Boxing/Wrestling

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I would just like to say, as a 5'9 guy, if I woke up tomorrow and looked like Tim VanOrden, I'd jump out a window and slit my wrists on the way down. Being "big for a runner" is like being "cut for a superheavyweight powerlifter". No one cares, and the methods you're employing don't matter.
    "Emevas,
    You're a scrapper, I like that."-Ronin69
  5. TheRuss is offline
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    is badder than you

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2010 8:34pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Negation View Post
    Certain nutrients ARE potentially broken down by heating. Vitamin C, for instance, you should get from uncooked fruits.
    How confident are we on this? I seem to recall a lot of the "cooking loss" actually being attributable to leaching into the cooking water.

    EDIT:

    High pressure and conventional boiling had a significant loss rate of total glucosinolates (33% and 55% respectively) regarding fresh raw broccoli, due to the leaching into the cooking water. On the other hand, steaming had minimal effects on glucosinolates and vitamin C.
    - http://en.scientificcommons.org/51970572
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Downstreet on the flip-flop, timepants.
  6. Blue Negation is offline

    Woke up in the mortuary

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2010 8:56pm


     Style: Judo, Sub wrestling

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRuss View Post
    How confident are we on this? I seem to recall a lot of the "cooking loss" actually being attributable to leaching into the cooking water.

    EDIT:


    - http://en.scientificcommons.org/51970572
    Good to know, thanks. Further ammunition.
  7. Matt Phillips is offline
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    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2010 9:45pm

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I agree with what is being said here, but I do want to point out that one can not require cooked food for normal health. Homo Sapiens is evolved to do just fine with room temp food. If there has been some loss of ability to process cool food in the last 10,000 years due to the use of fire to cook, I would regard that as a problem along the lines of widespread loss of 20/20 vision.
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


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  8. TheRuss is offline
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    is badder than you

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2010 10:19pm

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    Quote Originally Posted by War Wheel View Post
    I agree with what is being said here, but I do want to point out that one can not require cooked food for normal health. Homo Sapiens is evolved to do just fine with room temp food. If there has been some loss of ability to process cool food in the last 10,000 years due to the use of fire to cook, I would regard that as a problem along the lines of widespread loss of 20/20 vision.
    The example that comes to mind for me is egg white. 50% bioavailability raw, 90% cooked - advantageous but not crucial.
    Quote Originally Posted by Emevas View Post
    Downstreet on the flip-flop, timepants.
  9. JohnnyCache is offline
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    All Out of Bubblegum

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2010 10:30pm

    supporting memberforum leader
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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by War Wheel View Post
    I agree with what is being said here, but I do want to point out that one can not require cooked food for normal health. Homo Sapiens is evolved to do just fine with room temp food. If there has been some loss of ability to process cool food in the last 10,000 years due to the use of fire to cook, I would regard that as a problem along the lines of widespread loss of 20/20 vision.
    I dunno I don't know if it's so much of a loss/gain thing as an ability to utilize more things as food - Cooking Man can eat apples and pigs, Picking Man can only eat apples. I don't think there was a time when homo sapiens could just nom raw red meat or poultry with the assurance of safety, was there?

    Also, cooking shotguns a number of problems - maybe we can digest raw lean beef or raw egg white but not cooking them increases their viability as vectors for fungus, bacteria, parasites, etc that I'm not sure we ever tolerated - we just died sooner...
    Last edited by JohnnyCache; 4/12/2010 10:33pm at .
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  10. Kintanon is offline
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    Yes, I am smarter than you are.

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    Posted On:
    4/12/2010 10:37pm

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     Style: TKD, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sure, people are generally omnivorous. You can drop your ass into the woods and eat bark and leaves and grass and as long as you don't hit anything directly poisonous you'll probably live.
    You sure as hell won't be at optimum health though.

    These raw foodists would all DIE if dropped into actual nature for a couple of weeks.
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