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  1. retrograde is offline

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    268

    Posted On:
    4/04/2010 9:02am


     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!

    Master Toddy's online PPV female bare-knuckle TV show

    OK, where to start?

    In January, this thread appeared on an Australian kickboxing magazine forum. Master Toddy (you may remember him from such TV shows as Fight Girls) was making the "new" Fight Girls and would be holding auditions in Melbourne and Sydney.

    The flyer automatically raised a few red flags for me: why was there no production companies, TV networks or other third parties mentioned anywhere? Why did the "promo clip" look like it was done with a handi-cam and iMovie?

    More red flags came with this post:

    Individuals will be chosen according to personality and determination. It will not be based on skill level or lack of Muay Thai knowledge. So this means if you are a world champion fighter or just a beginner does not mean you will not be picked.
    There is a registration fee TBA for the audition goes towards the production of your audition tape and photos. You will receive a copy of your professionally taken pictures and audition tape.
    Niiice. So you have to pay them to audition, and they're looking for the biggest norks -- er, I mean, biggest "determination'" -- not the best fighters.

    Anyway, it looked blatantly dodgy to me, but apparently not so to the 50-odd chicks who showed up to the auditions, presumably doling out their cash and time for their chance to become a "reality TV super star".

    Anyway, a few months have passed, and the thread flares up again: what's happening with this program? Have they chosen the fighters?

    I'm still kind of curious, so I fired up the interwebs for a bit of Google-fu. No mention of the show outside of similar martial art forum posts and Master Toddy-related websites. No production companies. No TV networks.

    ... well, whatever: so Toddy wants to produce this out of his own pocket and then try to sell it to TV stations? Pretty optimistic, and I'd feel a bit ripped if I'd travelled a long way and paid to audition, but those people could easily have done the same research I did and seen this for themselves (though most people are very gullible, and don't approach the martial arts and TV industries with the skepticism they should).

    Then I found this article:

    The Tuff Girls series has been based on a previous series called Fight Girls but the new series is different because contestants will use hand wraps instead of full gloves but Pollet said the opportunities at the end of the show could be very similar.


    "All of the girls were asked in their interview if they were okay with fighting bare-knuckle because that is the traditional way to fight in Thailand," he said.

    Errr...

    I went to Toddy's webpage to suss it out and was greeted with a video advertising a PPV event called "bare knuckle fury": "Grandmaster Toddy goes deep underground for real, uncut, raw fights".

    I searched "Bare Knuckle Fury" and got this ugly webpage: Live Stream Pay Per View, featuring a clip of two guys in traditional clothes doing the old Muay Boran "climb the vine" technique.

    Here's the pitch to potential advertisers:

    From unsanctioned Bare Knuckle Fights in the inner cities to the remote jungle training camps Grand Master Toddy will take you on an Incredible journey into the heart of Muay Thai (Thai Boxing) in Thailand.

    In addition to the Bare Knuckle card you will witness a Female Muay Thai fight You'll also see All-American Susan Kocab’s journey from Montana (were she held an amateur boxing record of 20-2) as she battles to become one of Master Toddy’s Tuff Grlz’s. Watch her train while she learns about the battle hardened Muay Thai fight game and see whether she can make it in their extremely tough world


    This uncensored material will be first shown on livestrempayperview and then syndicated to International TV partners. As with previous Master Toddy features on USA networks such as Oxygen the producers fully expect this material to go Viral after the initial Live broadcasts .



    No mention of who these "International TV partners" are.


    More info on the "Box Office" page:


    All viewers will get to follow modern day Muy Thai legend, Grand Master Toddy, his disciples, and his associates as they delve into the heart of Muay Thai, listen to the stories about the origins and spiritual elements of the secretive Muay Thai training bases that existed for hundreds of years and the “pure extract” from which Muay Thai that evolved long before the term was ever uttered throughout the rest of the mainstream world.


    Follow this riveting journey with Master Toddy and you will be privileged to be a part of, and experience firsthand, the events as they unfold, witness every precise blow, the skill, the range, the strategy, the execution and the timing of the Muay Thai fighters as they emerge from the obscure corners of Thailand onto the center stage of the ultimate Muay Thai fight game
    Then I watched the "bare knuckle fury" clip again. Certainly it was bare knuckle fighting, but in a pro ring, with sponsors and refs. Not exactly "underground". Then it hit me: it's the freaking Mae Sot Burma-Thai border bare knuckle fights.

    Yeah, that one:

    Last year, Master Toddy, Britain's leading Thai trainer and promoter of kickboxing, brought over fighters from Las Vegas. The American fighters ran rings around the locals, which made for great TV but soured the spirit of the event and prompted the local organiser to keep the fights between Thais and Burmese in future.


    "It was disgusting," says one Canadian photographer, who witnessed last year's carnage. "These steroid beefcakes were bashing the **** out of the Burmese and Thais. It wasn't fair. They are trained to the max in the States, while many of the local contestants are not professionally trained [and don't] have financial backing like their Western counterparts."

    So the "TV show", as far as I can tell, is something along the lines of this: Master Toddy takes a bunch of girls chosen on looks rather than skills, trains them in "Muay Boran", puts them in the bare knuckle border fights (or something like it), then sells it online via PPV and hopes it picks up enough traction that a TV network buys it.


    Does this seem awfully dubious to anyone else?
  2. Matt Phillips is online now
    Matt Phillips's Avatar

    NOTE TO SELF - MOAR GRAPPLE - GET A NORMAL HAIR CUT - REPEAT

    Join Date
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    Posted On:
    4/04/2010 10:28am

    supporting member
     Style: Submission Grappling

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I strongly recommend you read this: http://www.bullshido.org/Daniel_Corvino before continuing.

    Daniel has pitched shows like this one to girls before as a way of getting his rocks off. That's technically speculation, and not in the MABS article, but it's the case.

    I wonder if our old friend Daniel is involved with this? If not, a pattern may be devloping around Master Toddy...

    This was shot back in August




    [/quote]
    Last edited by Matt Phillips; 4/04/2010 10:48am at .
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!
  3. miraclemty is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/22/2010 7:01pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    First of all the third girl in that video is Julia Budd (doing pull-ups), who happens to be a legitimate muay Thai champ and is the only one to beat Gina Carano in muay Thai. Fighters from our gym (TCMA) have fought against people from Gibson's (The gym Budd trains at) and I can say there are very legitimate, and have great credentials and talent. I have a hard time believing someone like Julia Budd would have anything to do with this kind of nonsense if what is being advertised is actually what is going on with the show.

    Tuff girls never came to fruition when they started doing recruitment for it here back in 2009, when it was first sent out through the Toddy gym grapevine. There were a couple girls from our gym that applied and nothing ever came of it. This may be a ressurection by a less-than-scrupulous advertiser or promotion to make some money. However I have to defend the legitimacy of Master Toddy, Julia Budd, and others who seem to have been involved in the Tuff girls promotion. The timeline doesnt add up, from when I heard about it in early 2009 (March) to when I heard it died because he could not find a network, to this new advertising now. The billing or what exactly is expected of the participants could have changed in that time, because this seems a mite ridiulous to me.

    I know a number of his fighters personally, including a friend and training partner from my own gym who went through Master Toddy's organization and ended up leaving his camp because he didnt like the way the management was handling things. I believe Master Toddy may be surrounding himself with the wrong sorts of people. The doubt was never in Toddy himself but rather the scruples of the managment of the orginzation itself. I would truly hate for Master Toddy's name or talent for caoching to be besmirched, along with Julia Budd and the other talented fighters involved with him, because of some crude and shady promoters and staff. I would really like to see some investigation done on this.
  4. AttorneyMike is offline

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    Posted On:
    5/24/2010 7:06am


     Style: BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Nice vid promo
  5. basicfacts is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/13/2010 11:06pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Your posts about Master Toddy are very true! He's a con artist who's a disgrace in the art of Muay Thai. All he cares about is money. I must say, he's quite charming and extremely manipulative. However, his lies always catches up to him and is absolutely hilarious as long as you're not on the other end of the lies and deception! Your blog is the most factual due to the evidence you provided. Great job in hopefully letting the world know how much of a horrible person he is. People need to stay away from him and be careful because his only intention is to make money off of you! If you're fighting under him, you're in danger! He'll set you up without a second of ever feeling guilty! Who pays for auditions??? What kind of set up is that. Great scandal! Master Fraudy Toddy is pathetic.
  6. basicfacts is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/13/2010 11:50pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Muay Thai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Miraclemty -

    Don't worry, the great fighters you know and have mentioned shouldn't be discredited because of their previous relationship with Toddy. Toddy has never BUILT a Champion. He's trained some Champions who paved their own way before they reached him. He just uses "I train world champions" to market his own gym/self.

    I was a member at his gym for a short period of time and have witnessed Toddy running into the office and telling his manger to deal with a situation by getting rid of the problem or avoiding a call. A great business depends on great service. Thus, he's keeping these people around for a reason which reflects his own shady and cowardly character. Toddy's a joke.
  7. littleoldme is offline

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    Feb 2008
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    Posted On:
    8/14/2010 1:56am


     Style: bagua

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Individuals will be chosen according to personality and determination. It will not be based on skill level or lack of Muay Thai knowledge. So this means if you are a world champion fighter or just a beginner does not mean you will not be picked.
    This quote from the OP really concerns me.

    I have seen variations of this kind of statement on talent contests targeted at Thai and Filipino girls with the same kind of "your personality is more important than your talent as we can train you" message, only they were fronts for human trafficking.

    The marketing campaigns for these fake talent contests also asked for a registration fee (US$400 IMMIC) that would cover a promotional video being made of the performance and an interview.

    Of course these videos have another purpose entirely when it comes to trafficking in human beings; they are used to advertise the girls to pimps.

    I am less concerned about the welfare of women responding to the Australian marketing campaign, simply because women and girls from relatively affluent countries tend not to be abused in he same way as women and girls from poorer countries.

    IME footage of Caucasian women / women from affluent countries in these talent shows is often used in Thai marketing campaigns to give them an impression of credibility amongst potential trafficking victims. The Thai girls see videos of the American / Australian girls auditioning and think that the set up must be legit.

    I would be extremely interested to know if Master Toddy or any of his shady associates were running similar campaigns in Thailand or other countries.

    I would also be interested to know whether the geographic locations of Toddy's business entities are also locations where there are lots of brothels and / or legalised prostitution.

    Just for the record I am NOT saying that what we have here is a front for human traffickers. There is not enough information to make that claim.

    I am saying that some of the qualities of this set up raise a lot of red flags for me as I have seen similar but different marketing campaigns for talent contests that are fronts for THB and on this basis I would be interested in learning more about the nature of what is going on.
    Last edited by littleoldme; 8/14/2010 2:28am at .
  8. laughingmonkey is offline

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    Posted On:
    8/14/2010 3:22am


     Style: running

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This is very similar to a scam that occurs frequently in the music industry. Some bozo's say they will record you and distribute your music throughout the industry, all for a small(read: rather large) fee. The reality is that you fork out lotsa cash, get a shitty recording and never hear from them again. And, if by some miracle your music is picked up by a recording company(never happens) you've signed over your copyright to the aforementioned bozo's. Bad deal.

    Actually, things like American idol, the Australian JJJ unearthed etc are just legitimised versions of this scam. It's about exploitation, acquiring copyright etc.

    I definitely think the idea of this being tied in with human trafficking is worth checking out.
  9. bareface13 is offline

    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    1

    Posted On:
    10/06/2010 5:21am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: karate jitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by retrograde View Post
    OK, where to start?

    In January, this thread appeared on an Australian kickboxing magazine forum. Master Toddy (you may remember him from such TV shows as Fight Girls) was making the "new" Fight Girls and would be holding auditions in Melbourne and Sydney.

    The flyer automatically raised a few red flags for me: why was there no production companies, TV networks or other third parties mentioned anywhere? Why did the "promo clip" look like it was done with a handi-cam and iMovie?

    More red flags came with this post:





    Niiice. So you have to pay them to audition, and they're looking for the biggest norks -- er, I mean, biggest "determination'" -- not the best fighters.

    Anyway, it looked blatantly dodgy to me, but apparently not so to the 50-odd chicks who showed up to the auditions, presumably doling out their cash and time for their chance to become a "reality TV super star".

    Anyway, a few months have passed, and the thread flares up again: what's happening with this program? Have they chosen the fighters?

    I'm still kind of curious, so I fired up the interwebs for a bit of Google-fu. No mention of the show outside of similar martial art forum posts and Master Toddy-related websites. No production companies. No TV networks.

    ... well, whatever: so Toddy wants to produce this out of his own pocket and then try to sell it to TV stations? Pretty optimistic, and I'd feel a bit ripped if I'd travelled a long way and paid to audition, but those people could easily have done the same research I did and seen this for themselves (though most people are very gullible, and don't approach the martial arts and TV industries with the skepticism they should).

    Then I found this article:




    Errr...

    I went to Toddy's webpage to suss it out and was greeted with a video advertising a PPV event called "bare knuckle fury": "Grandmaster Toddy goes deep underground for real, uncut, raw fights".

    I searched "Bare Knuckle Fury" and got this ugly webpage: Live Stream Pay Per View, featuring a clip of two guys in traditional clothes doing the old Muay Boran "climb the vine" technique.

    Here's the pitch to potential advertisers:

    [/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT]


    No mention of who these "International TV partners" are.


    More info on the "Box Office" page:


    [FONT=Arial][FONT=arial][SIZE=2]

    Then I watched the "bare knuckle fury" clip again. Certainly it was bare knuckle fighting, but in a pro ring, with sponsors and refs. Not exactly "underground". Then it hit me: it's the freaking Mae Sot Burma-Thai border bare knuckle fights.

    Yeah, that one:




    So the "TV show", as far as I can tell, is something along the lines of this: Master Toddy takes a bunch of girls chosen on looks rather than skills, trains them in "Muay Boran", puts them in the bare knuckle border fights (or something like it), then sells it online via PPV and hopes it picks up enough traction that a TV network buys it.


    Does this seem awfully dubious to anyone else?
    The series was filmed and finished two months ago. As it was filmed as a TV series then having people that look good is important when marketing to TV stations and their audiences.
    I watched the auditions and the the selection fights and yes the girls all looked good but they fought even better. Six really enthusiastic and entertaining fights. Sarah "the pocket rocket" George had a good head start in fighting skills.
    I had the chance to travel to Thailand to train with the girls and be part of the show but missed the opportunity. Saving money to train with Kiichi Nakamoto.
    I know the girl who won the series, her husband and her trainer and will guarantee that they are all above board.

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