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View Poll Results: Which of the following is most damaging to Martial Arts?

Voters
1180. You may not vote on this poll
  • Mc Dojos

    413 35.00%
  • Charlatans / Bullshido Artists

    387 32.80%
  • Bruce Lee

    31 2.63%
  • MMA Events

    41 3.47%
  • Mysticism

    180 15.25%
  • Technology (internet, games etc)

    28 2.37%
  • The Karate Kid

    50 4.24%
  • All other MA films

    40 3.39%
  • MA-based childrens' toys

    10 0.85%
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  1. MBG is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/27/2007 2:47am


     Style: MMA, ex-Sanshou

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kid_1412
    well,beside mcdojos, i think mma events also give severe damage to martial arts.kids nowsday would prefer mma than traditional martial arts.mma teaches people to be a good fighter,not a good martial artist.they only know to brag about their martial skills and this makes me irritate
    Actually, a person who tests their skills and fully understands their prowess will give much less arrogant crap. For example, a guy I knew in high school always talked about pressure points, knuckle extension punches, and being able to literally punch your nose to the back of your skull. At the same time, there was another who was well versed in sanshou, boxing, and judo (he went on to compete in international tournaments) who hardly said anything at all, unless asked to.

    I do not know your definition of a good martial artist, so I will not say anything unless you expand it further.

    I voted mysticism because all that Japan or China worship and how martial artists must be respectful and maintain proper attitude leads to the charlatans. A lot of the "too deadly" and "too honorable" to fight crap comes from mysticism.
  2. WorldWarCheese is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/27/2007 9:34am


     Style: Muay Thai n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kohadril
    Change is not the same as damage. MMA created a huge change in martial arts, because it proved the total inefficacy of most mainstream systems. It resulted in the debunking of hundreds of techniques and theories of combat, and in so doing, strengthened martial arts by culling (to the extent it was able) what simply didn't work. For anyone who was paying attention, it redefined our understanding of self-defense.

    As another poster said above, I think MMA was the best thing that ever happened to fighting, because I believe in empiricism. MMA provides the best experimental tests available for any strategy, idea, or technique. Rigor and discipline, the willing to admit that certain things don't work and focus on what does, the willing to submit one's own style and ethos to the possibility of defeat--that is real martial arts. Not the tired dogma of traditionalist codgers.


    I hope so.


    Those things are not different. Really. I'm not going to cross post from the philosophy thread, but the only truly definitional requirement of a martial art is just a systematized rubrick for teaching fighting. Whatever else a martial art teaches, that core component must be its primary curriculum. Otherwise it's not a martial art--it's a philosophy that talks about punching, or a religion that involves grappling. If learning to fight is not the primary purpose of an activity, then the activity is not a martial art.


    I've heard more arrogant crap from people who take Karate or TaeKwonDo than from people learning MMA, but that's neither here nor there. Your real problem here is not MMA in particular, but the lack of emphasis MMA coaches put on sportsmanship. I will say that this varies wildly from coach to coach, and also that it has little to do with the vitality of martial arts writ large. To the extent that it turns people off from MMA, I'd have to agree with you that it's something that needs to be addressed. Of course, the reason I'd like to see better sportsmanship in MMA (and actually, the sportsmanship isn't all that bad) is so that it will extend its domination of the discussion of martial arts further into the mainstream.

    The most damaging thing for a martial art is an unwillingness to change. MMA is the solution to that problem.
    This was an excellent post and a printed version should be saved for posterity inside an amber cube like that mosquito in the Science Museum to be used in a Jurassic Park manner to create dozens of new MMA-ists in case some horrible meteorite kills us all.

    MMA is the best thing that has happened for MMA. Take the evolution of Judo as an example:
    Kano made a very impressive system with Kodokan then Kosen Judo and it was very violent and juicy. Then WWII and the Olympics happened and it was pussified a little bit. Then MMA and BJJ comes around and BANG you see Top Ranked Judokas like Yoshida and Inoue crosstraining and focusing on their ground game and then even competing and being pretty successful in MMA. Pride/UFC practically saved Judo's soul, IMHO.
  3. Ecks is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/29/2007 2:54pm


     Style: Boxing

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Robe wearing Orientalphiles should be up there as well. It's at the point where I once mentioned the word "martial" in conversation, and another random guy pops his head in and says, "I've trained martial arts in China, have you heard of Dim Mak?" and proceeded to tell me his whole life story.

    That, and Bandai.
  4. winnersguard is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/29/2007 3:30pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: BJJ, Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tom60
    what dose mysticism have to do with Martial arts ?
    Dim Mak is an example. Or Chi Blasts. Its considered "part of" martial arts because people that claim to be in the martial arts believe this **** is true/works.
  5. PSanderson is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/29/2007 3:36pm


     Style: Aikido, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I still remember that video of the old guy in the black uniform with the red belt getting beaten on. The guy who did the mystical kiai stuff.

    It's funny on one level, but mostly I'm a mixture of baffled, appalled, and terribly sorry for the crazy man. What put him up to that nonsense?
  6. heartofwar is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/31/2007 3:34am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Jujutsu/Kenpo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    What about kiddie classes ?

    Honestly, the most damaging thing to martial arts?
    Martial artists. Now, don't blast me yet, please. There are many martial arts that have been watered down over the years, lost, confused, misinterpreted, misrepresented, and generally ripped to shreds by individuals known as, martial artists. Just like humanity would be a great thing if it wasn't for all the darn humans. :grommit:
  7. Who? is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/31/2007 4:02am


     Style: Muay Thai MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by PSanderson
    I'm not a big fan of Pride or UFC - I dislike the idea of any sport-type affair that involves people seriously hurting one another for money or fame. (That said, it's their choice, and I suppose it's not immoral to try to learn something from what's already being done.) But "Mixed Martial Arts", in the sense of people cross-training and practicing together, is I think an excellent thing. I know that I learned a lot from messing around with some people who did striking-based arts for a while. It gave me a new perspective on my daily practice, and discover some principles that I'd overlooked. To be sure, I got wailed on at first, but once I got over the ego-bruising I started to learn some things.

    .
    After training with other martial arts the next progression is going to be fighting them, isn't it?
  8. WorldWarCheese is offline
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    Posted On:
    4/01/2007 1:55am


     Style: Muay Thai n00b

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Who?
    After training with other martial arts the next progression is going to be fighting them, isn't it?
    Only if you're Ryu from Streetfighter :ninjadanc

    And about the sportfighting, pfft there're the reason good martial arts are springing up, bad martial arts are getting their arses kicked and shown for the pussies they are and the reasons arts like Judo are bringing back aspects of previous little importance (newaza)
  9. Dalejade is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/01/2007 7:24pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: Judo

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    World War Cheez****** I think I/we know who you are. We/Daughter/Husband have been trying to find you. Daughter just won second MAJOR win in two weeks. Miami Nationals 3rd Place. Liberty Bell 2nd place yesterday! Hope to hear from you soon. Judo is number one in our house. Mayo Quanchi!!!!
  10. PSanderson is offline

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    Posted On:
    4/01/2007 9:17pm


     Style: Aikido, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Who?
    After training with other martial arts the next progression is going to be fighting them, isn't it?
    Yeah, actually, that's a large part of what I was referring to when I said "practicing together": having some friendly matches with people from different styles and traditions. Sure, you can learn a lot about applying aikido technique by doing some high-resistance randori with your dojomates. But it's also good to try with someone who has an entirely different skillset, and will come at you with stuff you've never even seen before.

    Like, today, I had a little practice at hands-on-each-other's-shoulders range with a person who studied Bagua. He rapidly demonstrated that my ability to apply techniques in that context was deficient. My first attempts were iriminage and its variants, since they use a relatively close range (like the one we were at). However, setting up the footwork was definitely different when starting with interlocked arms, and I didn't have much success. He, on the other hand, performed similar throws much more effectively than I, through the use of setups like sweeps.

    Or for another example, in college I sometimes sparred with Tae Kwon Do/Soo Bahk Do people. Of the many lessons I learned there, one was the importance of bold footwork/committed focus when applying an ikkyo-style takedown. My first few (half-hearted/reserved) attempts just got me punched. But when I really drove in with a strong leading strike, it was remarkably easy. (I also learned several examples of "How not to catch a kick". Ow.)

    So yeah. Good stuff all around.
    Last edited by PSanderson; 4/01/2007 9:18pm at . Reason: Addition to first paragraph

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