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View Poll Results: Which of the following is most damaging to Martial Arts?

Voters
1180. You may not vote on this poll
  • Mc Dojos

    413 35.00%
  • Charlatans / Bullshido Artists

    387 32.80%
  • Bruce Lee

    31 2.63%
  • MMA Events

    41 3.47%
  • Mysticism

    180 15.25%
  • Technology (internet, games etc)

    28 2.37%
  • The Karate Kid

    50 4.24%
  • All other MA films

    40 3.39%
  • MA-based childrens' toys

    10 0.85%
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  1. WorldWarCheese is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/21/2007 12:21am


     Style: Muay Thai n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Nice idea. McDojos. Close second is the charlatans. The thing is the McDojo takes people and therefor funds away from more legit training centers (Such as the Green Mountain Kyokushin Dojo of Ashland Massachusetts in Gold's Gym) which are forced to try and compete in a McDojo world.... we're being kicked out of Gold's due to lack of memberage...
  2. Harlequin01 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/21/2007 6:02am

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: none

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I've found that the most damaging thing to martial arts, which is not even an option in the list, is the internal politics of an art. How many times over the years have we seen new governing bodies form just to splinter into various factions, divisions between blackbelts who go on to form various cliques with their own agenda.

    In my opinion, the internal politics of most martial art styles has done more damage than anything else.
  3. jdinca is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/21/2007 12:55pm


     Style: Chinese Kenpo

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    It's a pretty simple question to me. Hack teachers and puffed up egos. They often go hand in hand.
  4. kid_1412 is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/22/2007 1:27am


     Style: Tae Kwon Do(GTF now)

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    well,beside mcdojos, i think mma events also give severe damage to martial arts.kids nowsday would prefer mma than traditional martial arts.mma teaches people to be a good fighter,not a good martial artist.they only know to brag about their martial skills and this makes me irritate
  5. Uri Shatil is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/22/2007 6:48pm


     Style: Wrestling, BJJ n00b

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by cyrijl
    Yeah but Uri, you are not really learning self-defense at your school. You are learning interpretive dance. Yup, I went there. Sorry.


    --added:
    (which is not practical)
    Yeah, I'm aware of the critizisms of the Bujinkan. I'm not the kind of asshat who tries to argue with you and make an ass of himself, I'm more the kind of asshat who shelters himself from the critizism. So I say to you, "Talk to the earth, 'cus the wind don't wanna hear it!"

    Oh, and by the way, chicks dig interpretive dance.
  6. Feryk is offline

    Boneheaded Optimist

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    Posted On:
    3/26/2007 1:38pm

    supporting member
     Style: Wado Kai

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Uri Shatil
    Oh, and by the way, chicks dig interpretive dance.
    Any chick who grooves on 'da Ninja' are not chicks you want anyways...
    Quote Originally Posted by pauli
    i was once told that "do" means wrecking people's **** for your own philosophical betterment.

    Quote Originally Posted by melvin_peebles
    I could be mistaking dumbness for delusion. I'll have to go dig out my DSM IV. It's great to have stumbled upon this site. The rich fauna and flora of mental dysfunction that exists in the martial arts is amazing. It's like the Galapagos.
  7. ignatzami is offline
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    l Travel To Get Choked!

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    Posted On:
    3/26/2007 2:05pm


     Style: Judo, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kid_1412
    well,beside mcdojos, i think mma events also give severe damage to martial arts.kids nowsday would prefer mma than traditional martial arts.mma teaches people to be a good fighter,not a good martial artist.they only know to brag about their martial skills and this makes me irritate
    I'm going to take the bait here. I come from a Traditional background, Kung Fu, Kali, and Karate. I now take BJJ and Boxing.

    Now, credentials aside, your wrong. MMA is one of the best things that has ever happened to MA in the US. (MMA NOT UFC) MMA forces a practitioner to evaluate if what they are learning actually works, if it doesn't then you know. Traditional styles do not teach you to fight, they do not even guarantee you can fight!

    Take an average Joe. Joe goes into a boxing gym. Day one Joe gets beat around the ring, it sucks. He goes and trains for a month. Joe gets back in the ring, he gets beat around again but this time his hands are up, he tries to bob and weave, he gets a few hits in of his own. Joe is now a better fighter and it is obvious Joe is a better fighter. THAT is the essence of MMA. MMA is as close to a GUARANTEE as you can get that you will become a better fighter. TMA/CMA/FMA offer no such guarantee.
  8. melvin_peebles is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/26/2007 2:39pm

    Bullshido Newbie
     Style: mei tu quan

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Yeah but MMA's don't give you that mystical sense of invincibility conferred by TMA's.
  9. kohadril is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/26/2007 2:51pm


     Style: BJJ, Debate-Fu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by kid_1412
    i think mma events also give severe damage to martial arts.
    Change is not the same as damage. MMA created a huge change in martial arts, because it proved the total inefficacy of most mainstream systems. It resulted in the debunking of hundreds of techniques and theories of combat, and in so doing, strengthened martial arts by culling (to the extent it was able) what simply didn't work. For anyone who was paying attention, it redefined our understanding of self-defense.

    As another poster said above, I think MMA was the best thing that ever happened to fighting, because I believe in empiricism. MMA provides the best experimental tests available for any strategy, idea, or technique. Rigor and discipline, the willingness to admit that certain things don't work and focus on what does, to submit one's own style and ethos to the possibility of defeat--that is real martial arts. Not the tired dogma of traditionalist codgers.

    kids nowsday would prefer mma than traditional martial arts.
    I hope so.

    mma teaches people to be a good fighter,not a good martial artist.
    Those things are not different. Really. I'm not going to cross post from the philosophy thread, but the only truly definitional requirement of a martial art is just a systematized rubrick for teaching fighting. Whatever else a martial art teaches, that core component must be its primary curriculum. Otherwise it's not a martial art--it's a philosophy that talks about punching, or a religion that involves grappling. If learning to fight is not the primary purpose of an activity, then the activity is not a martial art.

    they only know to brag about their martial skills and this makes me irritate
    I've heard more arrogant crap from people who take Karate or TaeKwonDo than from people learning MMA, but that's neither here nor there. Your real problem here is not MMA in particular, but the lack of emphasis MMA coaches put on sportsmanship. I will say that this varies wildly from coach to coach, and also that it has little to do with the vitality of martial arts writ large. To the extent that it turns people off from MMA, I'd have to agree with you that it's something that needs to be addressed. Of course, the reason I'd like to see better sportsmanship in MMA (and actually, the sportsmanship isn't all that bad) is so that it will extend its domination of the discussion of martial arts further into the mainstream.

    The most damaging thing for a martial art is an unwillingness to change. MMA is the solution to that problem.
    Last edited by kohadril; 3/27/2007 10:22am at . Reason: Teh Gr4mm4rz
  10. PSanderson is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/26/2007 10:56pm


     Style: Aikido, BJJ

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    I think McDojos are godawful. They're really, truly awful. TKD, I think, has suffered a -lot- from this. I shudder at the idea that, given enough time, there will be Revenue Rainbow aikido McDojos springing up. In the meantime, aikido's problem is more "Bullshido" than "McDojo". Aiki-fruities, as we say, threaten to infect many otherwise good aikido schools.

    I'm not a big fan of Pride or UFC - I dislike the idea of any sport-type affair that involves people seriously hurting one another for money or fame. (That said, it's their choice, and I suppose it's not immoral to try to learn something from what's already being done.) But "Mixed Martial Arts", in the sense of people cross-training and practicing together, is I think an excellent thing. I know that I learned a lot from messing around with some people who did striking-based arts for a while. It gave me a new perspective on my daily practice, and discover some principles that I'd overlooked. To be sure, I got wailed on at first, but once I got over the ego-bruising I started to learn some things.

    Insularity is really dangerous, because it's easy to get delusional just doing one's own thing. Sure, every martial art has a particular context in which it's meant to be used, and they're not always compatible. Still, even if it can't be a -perfect- solution, it is certainly a valuable tool.

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