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  1. money is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/24/2010 5:54pm

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     Style: BJJ, MT, MMA, CQB

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooded Justice View Post
    Forgive my ignorance but what is a KB?
    I always think "Killing Blow" but perhaps I play too much Warcraft.

    (It's Ka-Boom, a explosive malfunction)
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  2. IMightBeWrong is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/24/2010 10:28pm


     Style: 9mm/Judo/BJJ/MT

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Money View Post
    I always think "Killing Blow" but perhaps I play too much Warcraft.

    (It's Ka-Boom, a explosive malfunction)
    Exactly. I lurk Glock Talk and The Firing Line quite a bit, so sorry if anybody is confused with the lingo.
  3. Brian R. VanCise is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/25/2010 6:11pm


     Style: IRT/FMA/BJJ/BUDO TAIJUTSU

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by vaquero de las nalgas View Post
    No, I still want a Glock. I would carry my Beretta Mod 96 - it will feed and shoot anything I put through it - but I don't want to lug around that kind of weight. Even a steel P232 is annoying after half an hour.
    You will definitely be happy with a Glock. My personal preference is the Glock 22, 40 cal. Definitely a bit bulky but fantastic on every level. For concealed carry the 26 or 27 are very nice.
  4. Wounded Ronin is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/27/2010 12:18am

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     Style: German longsword, .45 ACP

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by zaohu View Post
    A totally fabricated rep for going Kaboom at that. The only people that keep that rumor in circulation are adamant Glock Haters that know for a fact it's false and don't care. They're the same people that call the .40 a "compromise round" even though it (In 180gr) delivers more foot-lbs of energy than a 230gr .45 and with greater penetration to boot. I hate rumors like that. There seem to be more false rumors about Glocks than anything else.
    You seem pretty dismissive of this whole thing, but there seem to be some reasonable contrary opinions out there.

    "In various handgun courses over the years I have personally witnessed five (5!) kB!s, all with factory-new .40 S&W ammo. Yes, two were with the earlier Federal 165-grain Hydra-Shok, but I've also seen it happen with 180-grain Winchester Ranger and 155-grain Speer Gold Dot HPs."
    and

    "The problem is with the pistol. The design of the disconnector on the Glocks allow them to fire with the slide slightly out of battery -- this is a more significant problem with higher pressure cartridges. Other .40 S&W pistols, especially ones made of steel or designed from the ground up as .40s rather than merely being modified 9 mms, do not suffer from this same problem. … FWIW, if Glock modified the disconnector the out of battery failures could be significantly reduced."
    Check out this page as well, which includes statements from various manufacturers that seem to be specifically mentioning Glocks: http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/kb-notes.html#A1

    The Glock that blew up next to me was a .45 caliber glock. From that page:

    At least one munitions manufacturer, MagSafe, has dared to openly cite Glock by name in a cautionary note:

    “7.For greater safety and less wear on customer's guns, we now use .38 Special +P nickel brass for the .38 MAX, & Triton's .45 Super brass for the .45 MAX and .45 Super SWAT Loads. Glock 45s have huge throats; be careful.
    “nobody shoots anybody in the face unless you’re a hit man or a video gamer.” - Jack Thompson
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  5. IMightBeWrong is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/27/2010 9:33am


     Style: 9mm/Judo/BJJ/MT

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    The problem here is that the above "first hand experiences" are a load of crap. You can't believe everything you read, and you should never listen to anybody who state's they've seen 5 .40 caliber weapons blow up in person all during training courses. KBs just don't occur that often. There's also a problem with the disconnector argument. Even though there's a possibility that older models could fire out of battery, the crappy ammo would still be the primary source of blame for putting the weapon out of battery in the first place and as a side note I have owned multiple Glocks over the last 5 years and not one has had a problem with going out of battery.

    These are all arguments against the Glock that have been dealt with before. The place you SHOULD be going to is Glock Talk for your info. That's where all of the avid Glock shooters actually GO, and if you were going to talk about your gripe with a certain weapon after a KB where would you go first? The biggest source of info on the weapon or some place where only a fraction of the members are Glock fans in the first place? I wouldn't trust an article from thegunzone to get wet if I printed it out and stuck it in the toilet.

    EDIT: Just remembered to add: there is no truth to the .40 being a "higher pressure round" like this site and many others call it. It's actually loaded to the EXACT same pressure as 9mm in factory loadings unless you go specifically for extra pressure loads.
    Last edited by IMightBeWrong; 3/27/2010 9:37am at .
  6. tgace is online now
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    Posted On:
    3/27/2010 4:16pm


     Style: Arnis/Kenpo hybrid

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    He is displaying the classic "because it was on the internet" decision making phenomena. Something else I have noticed concerning the younger generation and things related to weapons, tactics, the military etc. is the "I saw/did/learned this in a video game" argument. I see in various forums people saying that this weapon is better than that one or that this tactic is right or wrong because of their experience playing Modern Warfare. And they actually believe that they have a serious argument.
  7. Wounded Ronin is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/27/2010 10:36pm

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     Style: German longsword, .45 ACP

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by zaohu View Post
    The problem here is that the above "first hand experiences" are a load of crap. You can't believe everything you read, and you should never listen to anybody who state's they've seen 5 .40 caliber weapons blow up in person all during training courses. KBs just don't occur that often. There's also a problem with the disconnector argument. Even though there's a possibility that older models could fire out of battery, the crappy ammo would still be the primary source of blame for putting the weapon out of battery in the first place and as a side note I have owned multiple Glocks over the last 5 years and not one has had a problem with going out of battery.

    These are all arguments against the Glock that have been dealt with before. The place you SHOULD be going to is Glock Talk for your info. That's where all of the avid Glock shooters actually GO, and if you were going to talk about your gripe with a certain weapon after a KB where would you go first? The biggest source of info on the weapon or some place where only a fraction of the members are Glock fans in the first place? I wouldn't trust an article from thegunzone to get wet if I printed it out and stuck it in the toilet.

    EDIT: Just remembered to add: there is no truth to the .40 being a "higher pressure round" like this site and many others call it. It's actually loaded to the EXACT same pressure as 9mm in factory loadings unless you go specifically for extra pressure loads.

    But aren't you just telling me to believe a different group of people on the internet?
    “nobody shoots anybody in the face unless you’re a hit man or a video gamer.” - Jack Thompson
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Th...%28attorney%29
  8. Wounded Ronin is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/27/2010 10:39pm

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     Style: German longsword, .45 ACP

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by tgace View Post
    He is displaying the classic "because it was on the internet" decision making phenomena. Something else I have noticed concerning the younger generation and things related to weapons, tactics, the military etc. is the "I saw/did/learned this in a video game" argument. I see in various forums people saying that this weapon is better than that one or that this tactic is right or wrong because of their experience playing Modern Warfare. And they actually believe that they have a serious argument.

    Well to be fair, first a glock blew up next to me, and then I looked on the internet in an attempt to learn more. I didn't see a glock blow up in a video game and then decide that must happen all the time. And so far the only counter argument to the kb! FAQ on this thread has been, "that's wrong, consult a different group of people on the internet."
    “nobody shoots anybody in the face unless you’re a hit man or a video gamer.” - Jack Thompson
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Th...%28attorney%29
  9. IMightBeWrong is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/28/2010 2:55am


     Style: 9mm/Judo/BJJ/MT

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wounded Ronin View Post
    Well to be fair, first a glock blew up next to me, and then I looked on the internet in an attempt to learn more. I didn't see a glock blow up in a video game and then decide that must happen all the time. And so far the only counter argument to the kb! FAQ on this thread has been, "that's wrong, consult a different group of people on the internet."
    I stand by my belief that there is no inherent defect in Glock pistols that causes explosions. I've had experience with 2 .40 Caliber Glocks, a 23 with at least 5,000 rounds through it before selling it and a 26 Gen 2 bought used after a lot of use with another 2,000 rounds or so put through it before I sold it as well to make the car payment. Now I understand that you've got first hand experience seeing one Glock go Ka-Boom, and other people do too. But that happens with every type of weapon.

    Now, is suggesting that you consult people from Glock Talk instead of your sources really that bad a suggestion? Why not give it a try instead of scoffing at it right from the start? You can tell somebody to go to MAP to talk to the people there about pointing you in the right direction for a legitimate MMA school, but wouldn't you be better suited sending them here? Heck, you could send people to Pizza Hut if they want to learn how to cook some Italian Food, but wouldn't they be better off learning how to cook the real deal? So why when in search of information on Glocks would you consult Google first and neglect a source as valuable as Glock Talk with members with thousands of rounds through their weapons, countless Glock Armorers, countless more GSSF members, tons of NRA certified instructors with experience with both Glocks and other weapons and far more knowledge collectively than some guy who wrote some article? In my opinion at the very least, it's a pretty darn good suggestion.

    Also, I do have an issue with something in your earlier posted article that suggests that the .40, as a high pressure round, is more prone to causing a catastrophic failure than other rounds. This is false and a rumor that's been going on for quite a while. The .40 S&W cartridge is loaded to 35000 PSI in almost all factory loads. This is the exact same pressure that your standard 9mm Luger is loaded to in factory loads, so saying that the .40 is dangerous because of it's high pressure is to also say that the 9mm is a high pressure round and likely to cause a KB as well, which proponents of the idea that the .40 S&W is highly pressurized and dangerous fail to point out. My own personal experience and reading over the last few years has led me to the conclusion that ammo type (as in caliber) is not an issue when looking at KBs, nor is the type of pistol a factor, but the amount of maintanence on the weapon and quality of production of the ammo used. As for the issue of whether Glock's fire out of battery or not, it is actually TRUE that you can pull the trigger on a Glock with the slide slightly pulled back. What your (in my opinion, biased and not well-written) article does not point out is the following, which I've taken the liberty of testing myself with a Glock 23C belonging to a friend of mine:

    1. If the weapon is out of battery by a few millimeters, even though the trigger will pull it will not actually release the striker. The trigger will simply bounce back into the firing position. I used to stick folded paper in the chamber to purposely cause this effect so that I could practice proper trigger pull without resetting the trigger in between pulls.

    2. When out of battery by an even smaller amount, the weapon will release the striker and you will hear the "Click". This is likely where the author got this opinion in the first place. The problem here is a bit tougher to spot, but with a simple unused snap cap and a Glock pistol you can put this to the test yourself. Stick the snap cap in and let the slide move forward slowly so that you can manually put the weapon into the position you want it in, in this case being the position mentioned above. Pull the trigger and listen to the snap. Remove the snap cap and check for an indent. Unless there's something wrong with your pistol, even though the firing pin was released there will be no indentation on your snap cap from the firing pin. Why? Because unless the weapon is in full battery, a Glock pistol's firing pin block (which has been present in every model since the first) will have completely stopped the pin from hitting the primer of the round. All it takes is a cheap snap cap and 2 minutes of detective work to run the experiment and the writer of the article doesn't seem to care enough to have taken the time.
  10. IMightBeWrong is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/28/2010 1:29pm


     Style: 9mm/Judo/BJJ/MT

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Blah, I messed up part of that and it's too late to edit. Both .40 cal Glocks I have experience with are 23s, one C and one regular, and the 26 was 9mm. The way I worded it makes it sound like the 26 is a .40 that I had experience with, so that's a boner on my part. The regular 23 was my own, as was the 26, the 23C belongs to a friend of mine and I've put about 1000 through it myself while out shooting with him.
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