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  1. BadUglyMagic is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/22/2010 12:47pm


     Style: slackerjitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Polar Bear View Post
    You have to train the body to not hesitate in applying the damage.

    I have a world class competitive sports fighter in my group who still struggles to make a cut to the head of an unprotected opponent. Now, while his physical condition and training far exceeds my own.

    It's a different emphasis in training, even if you are you are using identical techniques.
    Sorry Mr. Bear. It is mindset.

    If your friend has superior training and skill including the technique as you mention and he "struggles" to make the cut to the head, it is a mental limitation. You acknowledge he has "superior conditioning and skill". If that is true, he then has some other self-imposed limitation.

    Technique is technique. Training is to show/teach execution of technique. If he knows the technique to a superior skill level and is not able to properly execute it, any "fault" lies with him.

    I understand what you are claiming and am simply looking for support for your claim. Nothing in your explanations supports the claim.

    So to go to the silly end of the spectrum, in an actual sword fight against your friend, you are claiming you would win because despite his superior skill and conditioning, he is incapable of defending himself by making lethal cuts even when facing certain death by steel?
  2. Polar Bear is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/22/2010 3:12pm


     Style: WMA - German Longsword

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BadUglyMagic View Post
    So to go to the silly end of the spectrum, in an actual sword fight against your friend, you are claiming you would win because despite his superior skill and conditioning, he is incapable of defending himself by making lethal cuts even when facing certain death by steel?
    Have you ever been in a knife fight? When I was young, I nearly lost an eye because I lacked that intention. Walking around with an eye patch for months and trying to sleep with the feeling like someone is sticking pins in my eye taught me a valuable lesson. I later trained and fought in Muay Thai and I can assure you, in my experience, there is no comparison. It isn't just mindset. It's a different way of training. It isn't a style issue it's purely a training methodology issue. It's like military training, you do the actions as you have been trained regardless of whether you think you should or not.
  3. BadUglyMagic is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/22/2010 3:29pm


     Style: slackerjitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BadUglyMagic
    So to go to the silly end of the spectrum, in an actual sword fight against your friend, you are claiming you would win because despite his superior skill and conditioning, he is incapable of defending himself by making lethal cuts even when facing certain death by steel?

    "I nearly lost an eye because I lacked that intention. "


    If by intention you mean mindset.

    I suggest that if your friend knew he was facing death, his intention (which is not a mindset) would make him a tad bit lethal.

    I believe we will continue to disagree on this.
  4. Polar Bear is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/23/2010 5:42am


     Style: WMA - German Longsword

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BadUglyMagic View Post
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BadUglyMagic

    I believe we will continue to disagree on this.
    Aye seems that way. Good luck with your training anyway.
  5. JohnnyCache is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/23/2010 6:43am

    supporting memberforum leader
     Style: MMA

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BadUglyMagic View Post
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BadUglyMagic
    So to go to the silly end of the spectrum, in an actual sword fight against your friend, you are claiming you would win because despite his superior skill and conditioning, he is incapable of defending himself by making lethal cuts even when facing certain death by steel?

    "I nearly lost an eye because I lacked that intention. "


    If by intention you mean mindset.

    I suggest that if your friend knew he was facing death, his intention (which is not a mindset) would make him a tad bit lethal.

    I believe we will continue to disagree on this.
    His contention isn't all about mindset. His contention is that his friend's body of technique is incorrect because his hesitation to fully deliver a stroke creates a flaw.

    A better example would be if you never completely locked an elbow out for fear of crippling someone - by always giving them a few degrees of bend, you'd never learn the feeling of fully applying an armbar.
    There's no choice but to confront you, to engage you, to erase you. I've gone to great lengths to expand my threshold of pain. I will use my mistakes against you. There's no other choice.
  6. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    3/23/2010 9:31am

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Sticks or rattan might not simulate a sword like a blunt steel trainer, but let's be honest- steel trainers don't allow you to attack with the same intensity that you could with rattan. I think a training partner who isn't afraid to hold back because of weapon safety is more like a real opponent than one with a steel sword who has to take some of the mustard off his technique. Or, you could compensate for this by wearing lots of armor, which also detracts from the realism. I guess any sort of trainer has its limitations, but I like to err on the side of a safer trainer that allows for a high level of contact*

    *drawing the line at droopy padded weapons like the Actionflex ones.
  7. Polar Bear is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/23/2010 10:11am


     Style: WMA - German Longsword

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CodosDePiedra View Post
    Sticks or rattan might not simulate a sword like a blunt steel trainer, but let's be honest- steel trainers don't allow you to attack with the same intensity that you could with rattan. I think a training partner who isn't afraid to hold back because of weapon safety is more like a real opponent than one with a steel sword who has to take some of the mustard off his technique. Or, you could compensate for this by wearing lots of armor, which also detracts from the realism. I guess any sort of trainer has its limitations, but I like to err on the side of a safer trainer that allows for a high level of contact*

    *drawing the line at droopy padded weapons like the Actionflex ones.
    You can go full intention with steel under certain conditions:
    1. You are training with a highly experienced practioner whom you trust with your life to not take a killing cut if they see the opening.

    2. You are following a set piece that you have practiced alot.

    Other than that yeah I agree with you 100%. It's why I sometimes let my guys loose with nylon simulators for "fun" days. No armour (except mask) and full intention. It relieves the tension.
  8. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    3/23/2010 1:38pm

    supporting member
     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Polar Bear View Post
    You can go full intention with steel under certain conditions:
    1. You are training with a highly experienced practioner whom you trust with your life to not take a killing cut if they see the opening.

    2. You are following a set piece that you have practiced alot.

    Other than that yeah I agree with you 100%. It's why I sometimes let my guys loose with nylon simulators for "fun" days. No armour (except mask) and full intention. It relieves the tension.
    It seems like both of those conditions alter the reality of the situation more than using rattan would. A real opponent will take any opportunity and will not attack with a set pattern. I definitely see the value of steel (for test cutting, etc) but not really for sparring.
  9. Polar Bear is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/23/2010 3:02pm


     Style: WMA - German Longsword

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by CodosDePiedra View Post
    It seems like both of those conditions alter the reality of the situation more than using rattan would. A real opponent will take any opportunity and will not attack with a set pattern. I definitely see the value of steel (for test cutting, etc) but not really for sparring.
    Well depends how far into stupidity you're willing to go. I got a couple of scars for pushing it too far but it's worth doing from time to time to take yourself far outside your comfort zone.
    I use a semi-sharp sword in sparring now, I perversely find it safer than the re-enactment blunts. You have greater control as well as speed.
  10. Permalost is offline
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    pro nonsense self defense

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    Posted On:
    3/23/2010 4:13pm

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     Style: FMA, dumbek, Indian clubs

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Can you define semi-sharp?
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