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  1. Polar Bear is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/18/2010 11:56am


     Style: WMA - German Longsword

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR View Post
    PB, Maestro Sullins earned his title in military fencing (via Maestro William Gaugler's lineage in the traditional Italian style). It isn't modern sport fencing, it's the same syllabus that was used during the 19th century to train soldiers. See the interview at http://ejmas.com/jmanly/articles/200..._wolf_0803.htm .
    Heh heh, Isn't "Italian" and "Military" an oxymoron. Reminds me of the story of Churchill and the German Ambassador prior to the outbreak of WWII. The Ambassador says "You know if it comes to war, we will have italy with us." to which Churchill responded "It's only fair we had them last time".
    Italian institutions don't have a great rep in Europe, now if it was German, Dutch, French or even Eastern European I might have been impressed.
  2. DdlR is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/18/2010 8:00pm

    supporting member
     Style: Bartitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Polar Bear View Post
    Heh heh, Isn't "Italian" and "Military" an oxymoron. Reminds me of the story of Churchill and the German Ambassador prior to the outbreak of WWII. The Ambassador says "You know if it comes to war, we will have italy with us." to which Churchill responded "It's only fair we had them last time".
    Italian institutions don't have a great rep in Europe, now if it was German, Dutch, French or even Eastern European I might have been impressed.
    Just in case it wasn't obvious, I am not trying to impress you as to the might of the Italian military, I'm telling you that you were wrong to assume that Maestro Sullins' fencing credentials represent "sports training".
  3. Polar Bear is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/19/2010 2:26am


     Style: WMA - German Longsword

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by DdlR View Post
    Just in case it wasn't obvious, I am not trying to impress you as to the might of the Italian military, I'm telling you that you were wrong to assume that Maestro Sullins' fencing credentials represent "sports training".
    I had my Italian HEMA friends check out this certifying body. All they said is they hope it didn't cost him too much. You need to understand how alot of these things work in Italy. It's about who you know and how much your willing to pay.
  4. lklawson is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/19/2010 8:24am


     Style: Bowie

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    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    This thread is pointing out to me that I am a crotchety old curmudgeon.

    Maybe I should challenge Bear to a Broadsword League match.

    You wanna fly to Ohio and cross singlesticks with me? :brave: :smile:

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
  5. Polar Bear is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/19/2010 8:55am


     Style: WMA - German Longsword

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by lklawson View Post
    This thread is pointing out to me that I am a crotchety old curmudgeon.

    Maybe I should challenge Bear to a Broadsword League match.

    You wanna fly to Ohio and cross singlesticks with me? :brave: :smile:

    Peace favor your sword,
    Kirk
    Kirk, If I had the money for the flight, I would be there. These days it's hard enough to get fights in the UK. Everyone seems to be giving me and my boys a wide berth. I ended up leaving the BFHS because there was no point in paying dues for not to get to fight with anyone. If it wasn't for Chris Stride, Head of School of Traditional Medieval Fencing my guys wouldn't have go to test themselves against anyone at SWASH this year.
  6. BadUglyMagic is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/19/2010 2:45pm


     Style: slackerjitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Polar Bear View Post
    Martial Training is not the same a sports training.

    Are you saying that no-gi grappling and gi-based bjj training are not martial ? Is your statement that no one fighting using the techniques will be able to inflict or sustain a serious injury or death from the the sport based training?
  7. lklawson is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/19/2010 3:36pm


     Style: Bowie

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Polar Bear View Post
    Kirk, If I had the money for the flight, I would be there. These days it's hard enough to get fights in the UK.
    I hear ya, bro.

    Everyone seems to be giving me and my boys a wide berth.
    'Cept for me. I just give you a hard time. ;)


    I ended up leaving the BFHS because there was no point in paying dues for not to get to fight with anyone.
    I remember you writing of it on "that other forum."

    If it wasn't for Chris Stride, Head of School of Traditional Medieval Fencing my guys wouldn't have go to test themselves against anyone at SWASH this year.
    Well, at least there's someone with whom you can play. :)

    Peace favor your sword
  8. Polar Bear is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/20/2010 8:26am


     Style: WMA - German Longsword

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BadUglyMagic View Post
    Are you saying that no-gi grappling and gi-based bjj training are not martial ? Is your statement that no one fighting using the techniques will be able to inflict or sustain a serious injury or death from the the sport based training?
    Against a trained swordsman, that is exactly what I am saying. You see you fell into the idea that this was some sort of fair contest. A sportsman's mind.
  9. BadUglyMagic is offline
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    Posted On:
    3/20/2010 9:59am


     Style: slackerjitsu

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by Polar Bear View Post
    Against a trained swordsman, that is exactly what I am saying. You see you fell into the idea that this was some sort of fair contest. A sportsman's mind.
    I would agree that in a walk into the ring kind of fair fight a highly trained swordsman will own a highly trained grappler most any day.

    Fair contest? No. I was pointing at outcomes. Techniques that may be used sportively still have maiming or lethal outcome possibilities.

    A highly trained swordsman is a highy trained swordsman. Imo, the major distinction would be the depth of an individual's techniques.
    The same goes for knives.

    And yes, my skill level with a sword is around zero.
  10. Polar Bear is offline

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    Posted On:
    3/20/2010 2:22pm


     Style: WMA - German Longsword

    --
    Hell yeah! Hell no!
    Quote Originally Posted by BadUglyMagic View Post
    I would agree that in a walk into the ring kind of fair fight a highly trained swordsman will own a highly trained grappler most any day.

    Fair contest? No. I was pointing at outcomes. Techniques that may be used sportively still have maiming or lethal outcome possibilities.

    A highly trained swordsman is a highy trained swordsman. Imo, the major distinction would be the depth of an individual's techniques.
    The same goes for knives.

    And yes, my skill level with a sword is around zero.
    In my early days of training. I was told a valuable lesson. Given nothing, take everything. Whether the techniques are damaging are irrelevent if you are not training to use them in that capacity. You have to train the body to not hesitate in applying the damage. I have a world class competitive sports fighter in my group who still struggles to make a cut to the head of an unprotected opponent. Now, while his physical condition and training far exceeds my own. I can make the cut that would kill my training partner IF they do not correctly apply the defence to it. This is the pressure that has to be applied in training in the Science of Defence. It's a different emphasis in training, even if you are you are using identical techniques.
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